Is Lufthansa the most overrated airline out there?

Old Sep 28, 2017, 7:51 am
  #46  
formerl motty
 
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Originally Posted by thbe
Well, there were some obvious contradictions in your post.

You've said, that LH is the only airline, which is not providing trully flat seats. That is false.

You blame LH for the security checks at German airports. It's already funny, if an US citizen complain about security checks at airports of other countries, but to blame an airline for that is just wrong. Just ask for the difference between UA and TSA. It's the same difference between LH and Bundespolizei.

At LH food is average. I agree with that. But how can something rated average make something well below par?

Yes, inter European routes are served with coached seats in business. As all airlines do in Europe. There are a very very few exeptions with wide-body jets, including LH. I fly often businnes within Europe and believe me, LH is above average at that point.
Sorry you believe that's contradictory information, however, here is a little clarification of the perceived contradictions. I used to fly UA on their coffin configurations which although "lie-flat" in theory, were one of the most uncomfortable business seats ever. I swore those seats off and in my opinion Lufthansa seats are very similar. If compared to the old UA (ex CO) seats and certainly the new Polaris seats, all staggered configs (like LX) and other carriers - these seats are the worst. In my opinion these can't be considered as "lie-flat", since that standard has evolved. In some configs LH has a 2-3-2 setup, not fun to be in the middles seat.

As far as security, when making connection (like most of us need to do) - this can be a deciding factor for connecting hub. With so many incidents and delays that I had with other colleagues, connecting through FRA and MUC is a nightmare, hence - it certainly influences the overall carrier experience for LH. I also connected and originated in many US and European airports and also out of TLV (originated). FRA and MUC were certainly the worse. LH does have control over their security and could weigh in and dedicate more resources to improve this experience.
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Old Sep 28, 2017, 8:38 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by motty
Sorry you believe that's contradictory information, however, here is a little clarification of the perceived contradictions. I used to fly UA on their coffin configurations which although "lie-flat" in theory, were one of the most uncomfortable business seats ever. I swore those seats off and in my opinion Lufthansa seats are very similar. If compared to the old UA (ex CO) seats and certainly the new Polaris seats, all staggered configs (like LX) and other carriers - these seats are the worst. In my opinion these can't be considered as "lie-flat", since that standard has evolved. In some configs LH has a 2-3-2 setup, not fun to be in the middles seat.

As far as security, when making connection (like most of us need to do) - this can be a deciding factor for connecting hub. With so many incidents and delays that I had with other colleagues, connecting through FRA and MUC is a nightmare, hence - it certainly influences the overall carrier experience for LH. I also connected and originated in many US and European airports and also out of TLV (originated). FRA and MUC were certainly the worse. LH does have control over their security and could weigh in and dedicate more resources to improve this experience.
Sorry, but some of this still does not make sense. LH used to have angled flat and then moved to lie-flat. There are different types of lie-flat and the LH version is certainly towards the bottom of my preferences, but it is lie-flat - if you use your own categorisation, maybe you should include it.

I understand your frustration with FRA, but MUC? Coming from the U.S. or Canada, you do not even go through security when connecting!! Compare this to LHR where every pax connecting from outside UK/IRL has to be screened again. And as others have said, LH does not really have control over security (how would you otherwise explain the differences between FRA and MUC?).

On food, I would rate interconti J somewhat above average, though not really top either. Definitely better than BA.
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Old Sep 28, 2017, 9:46 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by motty
As far as security, when making connection (like most of us need to do) - this can be a deciding factor for connecting hub. With so many incidents and delays that I had with other colleagues, connecting through FRA and MUC is a nightmare, hence - it certainly influences the overall carrier experience for LH. I also connected and originated in many US and European airports and also out of TLV (originated). FRA and MUC were certainly the worse. LH does have control over their security and could weigh in and dedicate more resources to improve this experience.
I still don't understand why LH has control over the security checks. Does UA has control over the security checks at ORD? I think, it's the TSA at ORD as well. I'm sure, at FRA and MUC it's not LH, but the Bundespolizei. LH takes the security fees from the passengers and pays them to the Bundespolizei, that's it.
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Old Sep 28, 2017, 10:37 am
  #49  
 
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I'm not completely sure, but I don't think it's Polizei doing the security, but a contracted (by the airport, not airlines) security company
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Old Sep 28, 2017, 10:42 am
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by motty
I have flown LH too many times (over 8) - all in the recent year. Being a 2 Million Miler on UA takes a lot of air time, some on bad star alliance airlines like LH. A doubt you even come close to the millage I cover.
Worldclubber obviously is not a descriptive name, seems the only clubbing you do is on the keyboard. In the future - I'd suggest you keep personal stuff off the board and stick to the subject.
well, youre an arrogant sod...
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Old Sep 28, 2017, 11:54 am
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by motty
If compared to the old UA (ex CO) seats and certainly the new Polaris seats, all staggered configs (like LX) and other carriers - these seats are the worst.

As far as security, when making connection (like most of us need to do) - this can be a deciding factor for connecting hub. With so many incidents and delays that I had with other colleagues, connecting through FRA and MUC is a nightmare, hence - it certainly influences the overall carrier experience for LH. I also connected and originated in many US and European airports and also out of TLV (originated). FRA and MUC were certainly the worse. LH does have control over their security and could weigh in and dedicate more resources to improve this experience.




I must confess that I fail to see to what extent LX's lie flat beds are better than LH's lie flat beds, except if you are traveling solo and get assigned to a so called throne seat on LX.


Connecting in FRA from A to Z or Z to A (which I what I generally do unless there is an unexpected gate change) is really smooth and implies no security in FRA. Passport control is quick and duty free shops are cheap.
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Old Sep 28, 2017, 1:14 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
I'm not completely sure, but I don't think it's Polizei doing the security, but a contracted (by the airport, not airlines) security company
They are contracted by the Bundespolizei.
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Old Sep 28, 2017, 2:24 pm
  #53  
 
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Or contracted by Bundespolizei, that makes sense, yes.
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Old Oct 3, 2017, 7:51 am
  #54  
 
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
Compared to other airlines in Europe LH is still in the top 3. Everyone now has the slimline seats, no one really serves anything to eat and drink, delays are moderate (compared to the US where each year weather comes at a complete surprise to all airlines), and FFPs have collectively devalued since 2004. LCCs don't even offer any of the above.
That's it. Not only LH all the EU airlines are the same shi...!
No value in seat product ( Europe wide )
No real, value in service food.....
No more real value of FFP's ( for those flying cheap fares )

compared with Asia on same distance routes like between HKG BKK SIN JKT you get real value for your $
real business and even first cabins / seats
real top meal and drink services
and FFP's which are much more generous than our's
and the ticket prices are even cheaper than compared with LH's

And then LH and other European airlines wonder that premium customers are going more and more back and fly eco. For what benefit a company should pay 1000 Euro for an 2h. flight ?
I think if them introduce real business and first cabins and services, and upgrade FFP's back to "old days" levels for a valued price, also more premium customers would come back,
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Old Oct 3, 2017, 12:36 pm
  #55  
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Yes, tell me again how Thai is doing right now? And if Air Asia offers all of what you describe above?
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Old Oct 3, 2017, 2:44 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by Nic33
Connecting in FRA from A to Z or Z to A (which I what I generally do unless there is an unexpected gate change) is really smooth and implies no security in FRA. Passport control is quick and duty free shops are cheap.
What I hate is the crap shoot. As you say if you get A-Z it's great. But when you see your inbound turning towards B (or a remote stand) and your heart starts to sink...
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Old Oct 5, 2017, 1:09 pm
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
Yes, tell me again how Thai is doing right now? And if Air Asia offers all of what you describe above?
I not speak about Thai and Air Asia.
Air Asia is a LCC
I compared with SQ and CX on routes between BKK HKG and SIN where them all offer a real business and sometimes even first class!
And even Thai them offer a much better business produkt on domestics like BKK-HKT/CNX ...
LUFTHANSA wants to be a 5* airline, but offers LCC levels.
comparing a 2 to 2,5 h flight from FRA on LH with a same level flight from BKK, HKG or SIN for next week 2 days LH more likely comes out around 600 to 800 Euro incl. luggage in eco and 1000 to 1200 in business.
In Asia it's more like 250 to 350 Euro in eco and 700 to 800 in business
In eco i get more or less the same " nothing special " stand. meal 20kg luggage and that's it. Only that LH is about double in price.
In business the asians not so much cheaper, but them offer a real business ! Not only a curtain between C and Y. For what a company should pay 200 or more Euro more for no real benefit ?

*** P.S. for the FFP's them now more or less all the same sh...! That's why i decided not to book any special airline or aliance. I compare and pic the best value for $$$ on each occassion.
Many years ago. in the time FFP's credited most likely 1*Y 2*C , 3*F miles flown. Someone could also reach top status, with flying in deep discounted eco. I remember 4 return trips on TG between Germany and Thailand in W class + 8 LH train ow's QKL-FRA-QKL in business ( costed only 40 Euro ow !! ) and you already SEN. Now most FFP's not care anymore about "cheapcharly" bookings. And the bookingclasses earning full milage in eco. are so much more expensive, that it is not worth ( @ least for leisure travelers ).

Last edited by bertheike; Oct 5, 2017 at 1:23 pm
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Old Oct 5, 2017, 1:55 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by Alpha Golf
What I hate is the crap shoot. As you say if you get A-Z it's great. But when you see your inbound turning towards B (or a remote stand) and your heart starts to sink...


Agreed


Originally Posted by bertheike
And even Thai them offer a much better business produkt on domestics like BKK-HKT/CNX ...
Well you get sort of PE seats in an old aircraft which are not better than having an empty seat next to you. The food is okayish but, if I remember correctly, you get no booze. Service is great, but it has more to do with the Thai people than the airline.
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Old Oct 5, 2017, 2:27 pm
  #59  
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Originally Posted by antikantian
...and the LX business product is basically like a slightly downgraded first, whereas LHs business is more like a slightly upgraded economy.
I'm not arguing that LH's business seat is the best out there, but reading that you describe it as a "slightly upgraded" version of the economy seat makes it difficult for me to take anything else you write seriously. Could it be that you have never spent 12 hours in an economy seat?

HTB.
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Old Oct 5, 2017, 3:58 pm
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by bertheike
LH more likely comes out around 600 to 800 Euro incl. luggage in eco and 1000 to 1200 in business.
My last 2,5 flight on LH was FRA-PMO-FRA and the RT cost about EUR 350,- in business. Included were an additional seat next to me, lounge access at FRA and at PMO, 2 x hand baggage, 2 x 32kg check-in luggage, quite a good meal on both flights and free drinks. I'm not talking about the additional services and benefits cause of my status.

Same month I was flying FRA-FCO-FRA (2h) on LH and that RT cost about EUR 375,- in business.
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