Berlin_traveler

Hello FT Forum. I've searched and searched for feedback on this topic and haven't found anything yet. If someone can merge this thread if I overlooked something that would be great.

I'm a U.S. citizen who lives in Germany. I see that the Barclay World Elite Card has better perks and benefits than the Lufthansa Gold Card. Are there any Miles & More credit cards for German based or German citizens that give perks/award miles just as good as the Barclay card? And let's not even talk about why U.S. citizens receive better perks for a Miles & More card than Germans. I've lived in Germany so long I don't even have a checking account in the US any longer, only savings so I'm hesitant to even apply for the Barclay card.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

fligher

There are no better M&M credit cards in Germany than what's listed on the M&M site.

But if you are a US citizen, you should be able to get the US card if you want to jump through a few hoops.

1. SSN (you obviously have one if you're a US citizen)
2. US mailing address. Use a friend/family address with c/o
3. A way to pay bills. Get a checking account again, you can open one online at many banks as long as you have 1. and 2. Or again, pay via a family member's account. CC company doesn't care where the money comes from as long as they get paid.
4. Set up paperless billing to not annoy your friends with too much mail and avoid snooping.

oliver2002

I have both the German and the US M&M CC. No issues with getting the card, but you need a US checking account to pay it and a US mailing address as a minimum.

Berlin_traveler

Thanks for the advice! Makes sense with what you're saying. Now, explaining to my German partner why I get better perks as an American than her as a German with a German company through a British bank is an entirely different thread.

photographer2012

Don't they require a credit score in order to issue a credit card in the US?

oliver2002

Every US citizen gets a SSN at birth, which is the reference of your credit score. Assuming the OP had some kind of credit activity using his/her SSN in the past, s/he will have a credit rating/score which is enough to apply for the CC.

fligher

Yea, I know. It's not just the sign-up bonus:

• US: No foreign transaction fees. Use the card anywhere in the world and get rates that are sometimes even better than what you get quoted at Oanda or XE.com
  DE: 1.75% foreign transaction fee. Oh, as a Lufthansa customer, you travel a lot? Yea, be prepared to take a hit every time you pay abroad.
• US: 1 mile for every one dollar spent, 2 miles for every dollar spent on any M&M airline.
  DE: 1 mile for every two euros spent. No bonus for euros spent on M&M airlines.
  In many cases, the paltry 1/2 mile per euro you get on the German card for LH tickets will not even be enough to offset the credit card fee LH charges. Considering we're also talking USD vs EUR, the difference here is:
  DE: 2 EUR spent = 1 mile;
  US: 2 EUR spent = 2.24 USD (as of today) = 4.48 miles
• US: 35,000 miles sign-up bonus, sometimes more when they run a promotion.
  DE: 500 miles sign-up bonus (4000 miles gold card). Right now, they run a "promotion" for 6x sign bonus for the blue card = 3000 miles ... LOL
• US: companion ticket per year
  DE: [crickets chirping]
• US: two Lufthansa Business Lounge Vouchers per year
  DE: [crickets stopped chirping in shame]

To be fair, the blue DE card costs 55 EUR per year vs. the US card at 89 USD = 79 EUR. So a bit cheaper? Not as long as you have enough miles. Then they "conveniently" deduct the credit card fee in miles instead - 16.500 miles. IOW, they force you to redeem 16,500 miles each year for 55 Euros. I don't know how you value your miles, but at 0.3 ct/mile I find that a rotten deal.

oliver2002

US credit card issuers also make more money: they keep 1.5-2% of the transaction and seduce you into 19-28%APR if you delay payments. The German/EU CC market is different: Mastercard only keeps 0.3% as interchange fee and the CC bill is decducted from your checkin account within 4 weeks.

So the benefits handed out are proportional to the income of the card issuing company.

fligher

Interesting. Didn't know that. Does the interchange fee depend on where the card is based or where the purchase is made? Will you potentially screw up someone's cost calculation if you use a US card in Germany?

And yea, then assuming that most folks who buy tickets ex Germany on the German LH site would also pay with such a 0.3% German credit card makes those stupid credit card surcharges even more annoying. We'll nickel-and-dime you ... just because we can!

Fireflyer05

Interchange fees for consumer credit cards were regulated by the EU in 2015 (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release...16-2162_en.htm). For business cards the CC company still gets the higher interchange fee, that's why the business M&M CC still gets 1 mile per euro. AFAIU, the fee is based on the card issuer. So if you use a US card, the retailers bank (and the retailer in the end) has to pay the higher fee.

Berlin_traveler

What would you suggest to a German citizen interested in getting a CC that they could use to earn points on? American Express? Or the Miles & More business card?

fligher

For M&M, what I said above applies. No better cards than what's on their site. Keep in mind the biz card also has twice the annual fee - 33,000 miles as long as you have enough in your account (or 110 euros otherwise). That means, unless you're SEN who gets it for free, you need to spend 33,000 euros with the card every year just to make up for the annual fee!

IMO AmEx isn't worth it either. Acceptance in Germany is even worse than in the US. Many place still don't take any credit cards and if they do, usually it's only Visa and MC.

Not a credit card, but one option to look into is Payback, sort of a cross-brand loyalty program. Earn points for shopping in certain stores and convert them 1:1 onto miles:
https://www.payback.de/pb/milesandmore/id/45080/

Payback also offers a credit card that lets you collect 2 Euros = 1 point outside of the partner brands, but it's an AmEx, so yea ... meh

marbe166

At least you can earn Payback points on purchases in Payback stores and pay with your M&M credit card = double dipping (after Payback->M&M conversion).