LOT Polish new/cancelled/changed routes
Dec 13, 2017, 1:47 pm
#76
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
I don't think the Polish railway system will ever stop with such surprises. That being said, this current one is the local variant of 'fake news'.
Anywho, the PL-YYZ/ORD/NYC market is still quite dependent on the 'BzP' clientele that is willing to pay a premium to avoid FRA (or even WAW). Keep in mind, that premium isn't really that high, since the peak travel is summer months where LH knows how to exercise their market power and the fares are quite far of from what a customer in ARN would pay.
Anywho, the PL-YYZ/ORD/NYC market is still quite dependent on the 'BzP' clientele that is willing to pay a premium to avoid FRA (or even WAW). Keep in mind, that premium isn't really that high, since the peak travel is summer months where LH knows how to exercise their market power and the fares are quite far of from what a customer in ARN would pay.
Dec 13, 2017, 1:56 pm
#77
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
[/Rail OT]G
Last edited by AlicorporateUK; Dec 13, 2017 at 2:02 pm
Dec 13, 2017, 4:25 pm
#78
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
Apart from the fact that she was earning more than I did. She also did consultancy/training for banks, etc. in CEE countries. She'd even given workshops on Quant Finance methods to Goldman Sachs. From what I heard she earned more from those in half a day than I earned in a week. She had the academic credentials to easily get a position at an EU university but preferred to live in Odessa for emotional reasons. I know it sounds odd... most of Ukraine's population would probably jump ship by the middle of next week if you gave them a free right to live in the EU or US.
[Rail OT] But it works and is [in my opinion] one of the most efficient [systems] in Europe so at the end of the day I don’t care if the EIP between Warszawa & Bielsko-Biała makes one stop in the glorious Świętokrzyskie’s countryside, as long as trains are comfortable and on-time (British rail anyone?) [/Rail OT]
[/Rail OT]
Dec 14, 2017, 6:55 am
#79
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,017
I think it's just the British system that's so bad it's making everything else great by comparison 
I have experience with multiple western rail systems, and most are quite good, and while more expensive than, say, Polish system, the prices are still reasonable and you tend to get reasonably clean and reasonably fast trains.
In the UK, they are much more expensive, and quality varies a good bit between lines. Plus the reliability is not all that great.
I have experience with multiple western rail systems, and most are quite good, and while more expensive than, say, Polish system, the prices are still reasonable and you tend to get reasonably clean and reasonably fast trains.
In the UK, they are much more expensive, and quality varies a good bit between lines. Plus the reliability is not all that great.
Dec 14, 2017, 10:17 am
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,565
Don't underestimate the implacable desire of people who aren't frequent flyers to get that all-important non-stop routing, especially in Poland. While Brits are often used to connecting or positioning, to get to LHR or avoid it altogether, as well as going via the usual ME3 hubs for Asia/Australia, I find that in Poland people would sometimes rather lose a limb than take any extra flight, even when they're getting terrible value. I've gone blue in the face explaining the exact same things as you, but it almost never makes any impact on people who just want to get from A to B and back to A with as little fuss as possible. The fact that LO is now giving people far more options for non-stops makes them even less likely to change that mindset. LO understands this mindset very well, which is why it trumpets the new direct routes so loudly, even though the normally price-sensitive consumers could find better options elsewhere.
Poles are used to direct flights because thats what Ryanair and later, Wizzair, have given them. The hub flights are far more expensive. I just picked up a KRK-FRA-TXL for Ł80, I think thats amazing price, but Ryanair flights on the same day are only Ł10. Most people I know believe connecting costs more, and they are right.
Small Planet, Enter and other charter companies are cheap also. You don't pay a lot to fly on a carrier that has Captains aged 26 and paid flight deck time...
.
Again, most people in PL aren't aware of things like how Scandinavian routings can price much cheaper, especially for Premium cabins. I recently told a friend who was looking for a good deal on PE flights to Asia to start by looking at options from ARN. He looked at me like I was crazy. It was like telling someone who is hoping to find a cut-price vacation that they should consider spending a week in downtown Zurich. Another friend just booked WAW-LAX, paying over 3K for a junk economy ticket and was put out when I told him the price he could have got for flying LH instead. What's worse is that he intends to credit it to UA but the LO flight will only give him 25% on that.
. Don't tell Kaz.
PS and its routes are already well-known and appreciated among the Polish FF community (see https://www.fly4free.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=191&p=1012755) but I'm not sure how much that translates to the average consumer.
I think it's just the British system that's so bad it's making everything else great by comparison
I have experience with multiple western rail systems, and most are quite good, and while more expensive than, say, Polish system, the prices are still reasonable and you tend to get reasonably clean and reasonably fast trains.
In the UK, they are much more expensive, and quality varies a good bit between lines. Plus the reliability is not all that great.
I have experience with multiple western rail systems, and most are quite good, and while more expensive than, say, Polish system, the prices are still reasonable and you tend to get reasonably clean and reasonably fast trains.
In the UK, they are much more expensive, and quality varies a good bit between lines. Plus the reliability is not all that great.
They bought those terribly expensive Pendolino's and didn't fit them with Wi-Fi. I was told they omitted to write it in the contract, there was only one winner, Alstom. On Warsaw-Krakow they're a complete and utter waste of cash with no speed advantage at all for such expensive sets. To manage 225km in 2hrs20 mins is terrible. London to Glasgow is 642km and is done in 4hrs30 with plenty of stops. Warsaw-Krakow is nonstop. The FLIRT can do it in the same time, the Loco-hauled EIC can do it, and its far cheaper and the FLIRT has Wi-Fi!, EIC also and I just remembered the bar car has lower prices. The Pendolino is nothing short of a vanity project and an unnecessary golden turd purchase.
I think if they didn't have to spend net-EU contributors money then they would probably spend it a bit better just like they failed to do with say, RZE, LUZ, LCJ, RDO. Or building dual lane carriageways that are already to capacity in certain parts of Poland even with a Toll.
As I said, I enjoy getting the benefits of the UK's EU contributions here in Poland. Long may Shareeza May's payments continue to smooth my way in/around Poland.
Last edited by hugolover; Dec 14, 2017 at 10:23 am
Dec 14, 2017, 11:50 am
#82
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
But what direct long haul flights? They barely had any, only now do they reinstate routes long lost from the PRL times. Until recently what did they have, on an actual permanent basis? YYZ, ORD and JFK, on clapped out 767s? That's it. So unless Poles only wanted to go there, they had to connect.
Poles are used to direct flights because thats what Ryanair and later, Wizzair, have given them. The hub flights are far more expensive. I just picked up a KRK-FRA-TXL for Ł80, I think thats amazing price, but Ryanair flights on the same day are only Ł10. Most people I know believe connecting costs more, and they are right.
I remember though a couple years ago I used to be able to get connecting Lufty tickets to anywhere in Europe at that price and earned 3750 miles.
Actually, I didn't mean for them to head to Sweden for cheap flights but to point out the comments by LO 044 that the RZE will be full of cheap tickets. There aren't cheap longhaul tickets out of PL. It's that rich liberal democracy that has them, maybe because they have open borders too? . Don't tell Kaz.
. Don't tell Kaz.Of course, the newly discounted Scandinavian market is in a league of its own and I sometimes take advantage of that too (it's nice that we have all those LCCs going north for peanuts).
They bought those terribly expensive Pendolino's and didn't fit them with Wi-Fi. I was told they omitted to write it in the contract, there was only one winner, Alstom. On Warsaw-Krakow they're a complete and utter waste of cash with no speed advantage at all for such expensive sets. To manage 225km in 2hrs20 mins is terrible. London to Glasgow is 642km and is done in 4hrs30 with plenty of stops. Warsaw-Krakow is nonstop. The FLIRT can do it in the same time, the Loco-hauled EIC can do it, and its far cheaper and the FLIRT has Wi-Fi!, EIC also and I just remembered the bar car has lower prices. The Pendolino is nothing short of a vanity project and an unnecessary golden turd purchase.
Dec 14, 2017, 12:51 pm
#83
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
G
Last edited by AlicorporateUK; Dec 14, 2017 at 1:01 pm
Dec 15, 2017, 6:32 am
#85
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
My Pendolino ticke (advance purchase - PLN 79.00 including VAT) shows the distance is 293 kms.
Pendolino has not changed much on the WAW-KRK train route (mostly because CMK is still being renovated, there is only a single track from Opoczno to Wloszczowa as the other one is being re-done from the scratch), the big winner is WAW-WRO - down from about 7 hours in the 90's to 3.30 now.
Pendolino has not changed much on the WAW-KRK train route (mostly because CMK is still being renovated, there is only a single track from Opoczno to Wloszczowa as the other one is being re-done from the scratch), the big winner is WAW-WRO - down from about 7 hours in the 90's to 3.30 now.
Dec 15, 2017, 7:05 am
#86
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,141
I've ridden WRO-WAW on a regular IC train just yersterday in 4h30 in a brand new spanking train, with working Wi-Fi and for a quarter of a price of a pendolino ticket.
I was a big fan of the concept earlier, but unless schedule forces your hand, I'd never take a Pendolino on that route, the 60 minutes shorter ride is not worth the price — especially if you can't work offline.
I was a big fan of the concept earlier, but unless schedule forces your hand, I'd never take a Pendolino on that route, the 60 minutes shorter ride is not worth the price — especially if you can't work offline.
Dec 15, 2017, 7:14 am
#87
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
G
Dec 15, 2017, 7:56 am
#88
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,141
Wasn't even EIC, just "regular" IC, just on the Pesa Dart trains. Paid 85zl for a seat in 1st class two hours before getting on the train, *really* can't complain.
Dec 15, 2017, 8:14 am
#89
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
Got you ^
Yet another plus for the Polish rail system as opposed to other western countries. A few weeks back I had purchased a one-way train ticket from London St. Pancras to Derby (advance single, as they call it, roughly 30 GBP for a seat in First Class), however a significant delay travelling to Heathrow (from Warsaw) prevented me to get on that particular service, meaning that I had to buy a new ticket at the station, costing me over 100 Pounds (this was standard class): one and a half hour on a crap train, which was also packed to the brim due to several earlier cancellations at the other major London station, Euston (needless to say, I didn't even attempt to get to my assigned seat as it was already a challenge to actually get on the train). Absolutely not the end of the world (how to forget the night trips on those far from comfortable TLKs from Wałbrzych to Warsaw!), but still...
G
Yet another plus for the Polish rail system as opposed to other western countries. A few weeks back I had purchased a one-way train ticket from London St. Pancras to Derby (advance single, as they call it, roughly 30 GBP for a seat in First Class), however a significant delay travelling to Heathrow (from Warsaw) prevented me to get on that particular service, meaning that I had to buy a new ticket at the station, costing me over 100 Pounds (this was standard class): one and a half hour on a crap train, which was also packed to the brim due to several earlier cancellations at the other major London station, Euston (needless to say, I didn't even attempt to get to my assigned seat as it was already a challenge to actually get on the train). Absolutely not the end of the world (how to forget the night trips on those far from comfortable TLKs from Wałbrzych to Warsaw!), but still...
G
Last edited by AlicorporateUK; Dec 15, 2017 at 8:21 am
Dec 15, 2017, 11:15 am
#90
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
Got you ^
Yet another plus for the Polish rail system as opposed to other western countries. A few weeks back I had purchased a one-way train ticket from London St. Pancras to Derby (advance single, as they call it, roughly 30 GBP for a seat in First Class), however a significant delay travelling to Heathrow (from Warsaw) prevented me to get on that particular service, meaning that I had to buy a new ticket at the station, costing me over 100 Pounds (this was standard class): one and a half hour on a crap train, which was also packed to the brim due to several earlier cancellations at the other major London station, Euston (needless to say, I didn't even attempt to get to my assigned seat as it was already a challenge to actually get on the train). Absolutely not the end of the world (how to forget the night trips on those far from comfortable TLKs from Wałbrzych to Warsaw!), but still...
G
Yet another plus for the Polish rail system as opposed to other western countries. A few weeks back I had purchased a one-way train ticket from London St. Pancras to Derby (advance single, as they call it, roughly 30 GBP for a seat in First Class), however a significant delay travelling to Heathrow (from Warsaw) prevented me to get on that particular service, meaning that I had to buy a new ticket at the station, costing me over 100 Pounds (this was standard class): one and a half hour on a crap train, which was also packed to the brim due to several earlier cancellations at the other major London station, Euston (needless to say, I didn't even attempt to get to my assigned seat as it was already a challenge to actually get on the train). Absolutely not the end of the world (how to forget the night trips on those far from comfortable TLKs from Wałbrzych to Warsaw!), but still...
G