[NEWBIE LOUNGE] Ask Your Lufthansa Group Questions Here [2016-]
Aug 24, 2018, 3:27 am
#1996
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
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Location: 150km from MAN
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Isn't the cutoff for compensation on delay 3 hours?
2 hours is I think a guideline for light refreshments, and a limit for late arrival in case of an alternative flight, when between 1 and 2 weeks before the flight. The cutoff for changes less than 1 week before is 1 hour, and the compensation is halved if the arrival is later by less than this time (plus a different limit for earlier departure).
IIRC
2 hours is I think a guideline for light refreshments, and a limit for late arrival in case of an alternative flight, when between 1 and 2 weeks before the flight. The cutoff for changes less than 1 week before is 1 hour, and the compensation is halved if the arrival is later by less than this time (plus a different limit for earlier departure).
IIRC
Article 7
Right to compensation
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to:
(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;
(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;
(c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).
In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation will delay the passenger's arrival after the scheduled time.
2. When passengers are offered re-routing to their final destination on an alternative flight pursuant to Article 8, the arrival time of which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the flight originally booked
(a) by two hours, in respect of all flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or
(b) by three hours, in respect of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or
(c) by four hours, in respect of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),
the operating air carrier may reduce the compensation provided for in paragraph 1 by 50 %.
Right to compensation
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to:
(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;
(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;
(c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).
In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation will delay the passenger's arrival after the scheduled time.
2. When passengers are offered re-routing to their final destination on an alternative flight pursuant to Article 8, the arrival time of which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the flight originally booked
(a) by two hours, in respect of all flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or
(b) by three hours, in respect of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or
(c) by four hours, in respect of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),
the operating air carrier may reduce the compensation provided for in paragraph 1 by 50 %.
There are three broad categories where airlines may be required to make payments or otherwise assist passengers, in cases of delays, flight changes/cancellations or denied boarding.
Cash compensation
Cash compensation for cancellation is a payment of:[7]
€250, in the case of a type 1 flight
€400, in the case of a type 2 flight
€600, in the case of a type 3 flight
Where a passenger has been rerouted due to cancellation or denied boarding, the above amounts are payable if the passenger's actual arrival time is delayed beyond the scheduled arrival of their originally booked flights, by two/three/four hours for type 1/2/3 flights respectively. But if rerouting only delays the passenger by less than these thresholds, half of the specified amounts are payable as compensation.
Cash compensation
Cash compensation for cancellation is a payment of:[7]
€250, in the case of a type 1 flight
€400, in the case of a type 2 flight
€600, in the case of a type 3 flight
Where a passenger has been rerouted due to cancellation or denied boarding, the above amounts are payable if the passenger's actual arrival time is delayed beyond the scheduled arrival of their originally booked flights, by two/three/four hours for type 1/2/3 flights respectively. But if rerouting only delays the passenger by less than these thresholds, half of the specified amounts are payable as compensation.
Aug 24, 2018, 4:04 am
#1997
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,512
Will be flying with ANA from Nuremberg to Tokyo Haneda via Frankfurt. The connecting flight from Nuremberg to Frankfurt is operated by Lufthansa.
Since ANA does not operate any flights departing from Nuremberg, how will the boarding pass for the flight Frankfurt to Tokyo be handled? Will I get it at Nuremberg from the Lufthansa check in counter (as I will also check in all my baggage to Tokyo there) or do I have to get it at Frankfurt airport from an ANA check in counter?
Since ANA does not operate any flights departing from Nuremberg, how will the boarding pass for the flight Frankfurt to Tokyo be handled? Will I get it at Nuremberg from the Lufthansa check in counter (as I will also check in all my baggage to Tokyo there) or do I have to get it at Frankfurt airport from an ANA check in counter?
When you check in at Nuremberg you can check your baggage through to Tokyo. If you have been unable to check in online I'm sure you can get your boarding pass for FRA-HND at Nuremberg.
There is no need to go landside at Frankfurt but since your ANA flight leaves from a B gate I suggest you use the tunnel between A and B to avoid transfer security.
Aug 24, 2018, 5:38 am
#1998
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,033
This is somewhat confusing if you read the EU document.
My understanding is if you are rerouted and the rerouted flight arrives at the final destination more than two hours late (for under 1,500 km) you are eligible for a full compensation.
My understanding is if you are rerouted and the rerouted flight arrives at the final destination more than two hours late (for under 1,500 km) you are eligible for a full compensation.
The delay limit for compensation is set out in case law as 3 hours, as per rulings in cases C-402/07 (Sturgeon v Condor) in case of direct flights, and C-11/11 (Folkerts v Air France), also applicable to total delay at the endpoint of connecting flights, regardless of where the delay was caused and even if the original delay was less, but enough to miss a connection.
Aug 24, 2018, 6:26 am
#1999
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,316
Isn't the cutoff for compensation on delay 3 hours?
2 hours is I think a guideline for light refreshments, and a limit for late arrival in case of an alternative flight, when between 1 and 2 weeks before the flight. The cutoff for changes less than 1 week before is 1 hour, and the compensation is halved if the arrival is later by less than this time (plus a different limit for earlier departure).
IIRC
2 hours is I think a guideline for light refreshments, and a limit for late arrival in case of an alternative flight, when between 1 and 2 weeks before the flight. The cutoff for changes less than 1 week before is 1 hour, and the compensation is halved if the arrival is later by less than this time (plus a different limit for earlier departure).
IIRC
This is somewhat confusing if you read the EU document.
Wikipedia's explanation is a little clearer though I think this is not just for cancellation but also covers delay as well.
My understanding is if you are rerouted and the rerouted flight arrives at the final destination more than two hours late (for under 1,500 km) you are eligible for a full compensation.
Wikipedia's explanation is a little clearer though I think this is not just for cancellation but also covers delay as well.
My understanding is if you are rerouted and the rerouted flight arrives at the final destination more than two hours late (for under 1,500 km) you are eligible for a full compensation.
The quoted paragraph concerns re-routing on alternative flights. This is not the case with a delay.
The delay limit for compensation is set out in case law as 3 hours, as per rulings in cases C-402/07 (Sturgeon v Condor) in case of direct flights, and C-11/11 (Folkerts v Air France), also applicable to total delay at the endpoint of connecting flights, regardless of where the delay was caused and even if the original delay was less, but enough to miss a connection.
The delay limit for compensation is set out in case law as 3 hours, as per rulings in cases C-402/07 (Sturgeon v Condor) in case of direct flights, and C-11/11 (Folkerts v Air France), also applicable to total delay at the endpoint of connecting flights, regardless of where the delay was caused and even if the original delay was less, but enough to miss a connection.
Aug 28, 2018, 12:22 pm
#2000
Join Date: May 2009
Location: TPA Bay area
Posts: 485
EU compensation for 13 hr delay, how to prove?
Hello. We are US residents who were booked on flight LH 572 on 21 August FRA-JNB. The flight did not depart until 13+ hours later. We were given hotel and meal, but I Iost money for my hotel, rental car, first night safari stay, etc. in South Africa. Fellow pax onboard told me to file an EU compensation claim (as they were doibg, with a private agency), and I filed one. In addition, I contacted my credit card company, which provides the benefit of trip delay insurance
Two problems:
1. The EUClaim.con company or whatever it is called replied to me and said their records showed there was no delay--this, after I sent them copies of our old, and then, re-issued boarding passes! Obviously, this does not inspire confidence in dealing with their firm, that they should have no record of the delay. They insisted that I must have missed my flight or whatever, as, according to their records, "the flight departed on schedule".
2. My Chase Reserve credit card trip insurer says that I need to obtain an official Statement of Delay from the airline. All I can say is, good luck in getting that. No communication was giveb out at the time of delay, other than a vague statement of "
mechanical issue".
Any idea of how I can resolve this, and if there is a recommended EU claim agency, as well as obtaining some kind of delay statement?
I did have the presence of mind to screen shot the FlightStats page showing the delay.
Thank you.
Two problems:
1. The EUClaim.con company or whatever it is called replied to me and said their records showed there was no delay--this, after I sent them copies of our old, and then, re-issued boarding passes! Obviously, this does not inspire confidence in dealing with their firm, that they should have no record of the delay. They insisted that I must have missed my flight or whatever, as, according to their records, "the flight departed on schedule".
2. My Chase Reserve credit card trip insurer says that I need to obtain an official Statement of Delay from the airline. All I can say is, good luck in getting that. No communication was giveb out at the time of delay, other than a vague statement of "
mechanical issue".
Any idea of how I can resolve this, and if there is a recommended EU claim agency, as well as obtaining some kind of delay statement?
I did have the presence of mind to screen shot the FlightStats page showing the delay.
Thank you.
Aug 28, 2018, 12:31 pm
#2001
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: AMS/RTM
Posts: 2,827
And this should be enough proof, I have used it before. By the way, you do not need to use an agency. Write to Lufthansa in their standard contact form that you are requesting compensation according to EU261 for your flight (mention date and flight numbers), and that since the delay was caused by mechanical reasons they cannot claim it was an extraordinary circumstance. Tell them that if they don't send you a check within 21 days you'll pursue it in court (be vague, it's an empty threat anyway). They will most likely reply that it was extraordinary, stand your ground and repeat the deadline. They'll send you a check.
Aug 28, 2018, 1:08 pm
#2002
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,512
Hello. We are US residents who were booked on flight LH 572 on 21 August FRA-JNB. The flight did not depart until 13+ hours later. We were given hotel and meal, but I Iost money for my hotel, rental car, first night safari stay, etc. in South Africa. Fellow pax onboard told me to file an EU compensation claim (as they were doibg, with a private agency), and I filed one. In addition, I contacted my credit card company, which provides the benefit of trip delay insurance
Two problems:
1. The EUClaim.con company or whatever it is called replied to me and said their records showed there was no delay--this, after I sent them copies of our old, and then, re-issued boarding passes! Obviously, this does not inspire confidence in dealing with their firm, that they should have no record of the delay. They insisted that I must have missed my flight or whatever, as, according to their records, "the flight departed on schedule".
2. My Chase Reserve credit card trip insurer says that I need to obtain an official Statement of Delay from the airline. All I can say is, good luck in getting that. No communication was giveb out at the time of delay, other than a vague statement of "
mechanical issue".
Any idea of how I can resolve this, and if there is a recommended EU claim agency, as well as obtaining some kind of delay statement?
I did have the presence of mind to screen shot the FlightStats page showing the delay.
Thank you.
Two problems:
1. The EUClaim.con company or whatever it is called replied to me and said their records showed there was no delay--this, after I sent them copies of our old, and then, re-issued boarding passes! Obviously, this does not inspire confidence in dealing with their firm, that they should have no record of the delay. They insisted that I must have missed my flight or whatever, as, according to their records, "the flight departed on schedule".
2. My Chase Reserve credit card trip insurer says that I need to obtain an official Statement of Delay from the airline. All I can say is, good luck in getting that. No communication was giveb out at the time of delay, other than a vague statement of "
mechanical issue".
Any idea of how I can resolve this, and if there is a recommended EU claim agency, as well as obtaining some kind of delay statement?
I did have the presence of mind to screen shot the FlightStats page showing the delay.
Thank you.
As malmostoso said there’s no need to use an agency. Even if you are successful the airline will not cover consequential loss of money such as prepaid hotel at the destination, rental car and first night of safari stay. You will have to go to your insurance company.
Check the following thread in this forum as well as the comprehensive EC261 compensation thread in the BA forum.
Am I entitled to compensation? [merged]
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Aug 28, 2018, 4:32 pm
#2003
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
Is it possible you sent in the wrong date? Because FlightAware also shows LH572 on August 21 as having departed on time (arrived 3 minutes late)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...040Z/EDDF/FAOR
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...040Z/EDDF/FAOR
Aug 28, 2018, 10:04 pm
#2004
Join Date: May 2009
Location: TPA Bay area
Posts: 485
Is it possible you sent in the wrong date? Because FlightAware also shows LH572 on August 21 as having departed on time (arrived 3 minutes late)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...040Z/EDDF/FAOR
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...040Z/EDDF/FAOR
Aug 29, 2018, 1:12 am
#2005
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,512
These websites are not always 100% accurate. FlightRadar24 shows the departure time of LH572 on 21 August as 12:39 the following day (22 August). You should not need to provide the exact time of departure/arrival for your claim as the airline should have this information. I usually keep a screenshot of LH flight status page just in case.
Aug 29, 2018, 2:04 am
#2006
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2017
Programs: M&S, Radisson
Posts: 758
I would claim the money (600 euro per pax) myself. The agencies which do it for you take a substantial commission (sometimes as high as 50-75% of the 600 euro compensation).
What was the reason for the delay? You are probably aware of this, but just in case you aren't: The airline won't have to compensate pax if the delay could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.
What was the reason for the delay? You are probably aware of this, but just in case you aren't: The airline won't have to compensate pax if the delay could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.
Aug 29, 2018, 7:37 pm
#2007
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 261
Any advice on when SWISS release award space on the B777?
Looking at trying to get from LHR to BKK via ZRH
A lot of the smaller flights (LHR->ZRH) are available almost the full year in advance, however the B777 flight (ZRH-BKK) doesn't have any availability in July or August for economy or business.
Looking at trying to get from LHR to BKK via ZRH
A lot of the smaller flights (LHR->ZRH) are available almost the full year in advance, however the B777 flight (ZRH-BKK) doesn't have any availability in July or August for economy or business.
Aug 31, 2018, 3:27 am
#2008
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 21
If I book YVR-LAX-FRA-BRU in J (lots of award availability, months out), can I then call if F availability opens up LAX-FRA (usually seems to open up a couple of days in advance)? I know that there's a 50 euro fee to change an award booking, but is this per change or for the booking overall? Flying in J I'd go for a short layover in FRA, while in F I'd take a later flight FRA-BRU so we could do the Porsche rental.
Aug 31, 2018, 9:39 am
#2009
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: Lufthansa
Posts: 2
M & M award booking more difficult?
when looking to book a fligth award in long haul business class it seems to be much more difficult now than, say, two years ago (when I still had status)
While, even without status, I have amassed > 200k bonus miles the web site doesn't show me anything within the next six(!) months on:
FRA - Tokyo (all airports)
FRA - NYC (all airports)
FRA - GRU (Sao Paulo)
What is going on?
Has anybody has encountered a similar problem?
While, even without status, I have amassed > 200k bonus miles the web site doesn't show me anything within the next six(!) months on:
FRA - Tokyo (all airports)
FRA - NYC (all airports)
FRA - GRU (Sao Paulo)
What is going on?
Has anybody has encountered a similar problem?
Aug 31, 2018, 10:39 am
#2010
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,512
when looking to book a fligth award in long haul business class it seems to be much more difficult now than, say, two years ago (when I still had status)
While, even without status, I have amassed > 200k bonus miles the web site doesn't show me anything within the next six(!) months on:
FRA - Tokyo (all airports)
FRA - NYC (all airports)
FRA - GRU (Sao Paulo)
What is going on?
Has anybody has encountered a similar problem?
While, even without status, I have amassed > 200k bonus miles the web site doesn't show me anything within the next six(!) months on:
FRA - Tokyo (all airports)
FRA - NYC (all airports)
FRA - GRU (Sao Paulo)
What is going on?
Has anybody has encountered a similar problem?
I have tried to find business awards between the end of November and the beginning of December (usually a quiet time for award booking) to all three destinations and had no problem finding awards as long as I am flexible by a day or two. It seems the loss of status is influencing award availability.
