Allegris: New Cabin for the LH Group in 2023-25 (LX A330 LH A359/B748/B789)
#16
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
It's possible that like BA they want to have a consistent J experience across the fleet rather than the 'plane lottery' that you get with AF and KLM.
But I actually think we're seeing such an escalation of expectation when it comes to J that it's tough for these mega corporations and their fairly bureaucratic structures to keep track of it. AF still hasn't got their 'new' J seat rolled out across the fleet. There's a good chance that once the new 'suite' J concepts become common, AF's new J will be outdated before it's even fully rolled out.
LH and BA may have made the call to sit out the J arms race and instead trust on their corporate customer base and route network as their assets.
But I actually think we're seeing such an escalation of expectation when it comes to J that it's tough for these mega corporations and their fairly bureaucratic structures to keep track of it. AF still hasn't got their 'new' J seat rolled out across the fleet. There's a good chance that once the new 'suite' J concepts become common, AF's new J will be outdated before it's even fully rolled out.
LH and BA may have made the call to sit out the J arms race and instead trust on their corporate customer base and route network as their assets.
#17
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VIE
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, All Accor Platinum
Posts: 165
AF doesn't roll out the new Business Class through the entire long-haul fleet. The Carribean fleet e.g. will keep NEV 4.
However I still prefer the old AF C over the "new" LH C class as I do not like the position of your legs next to your neighbour with LH. THe new AF C class is something like a different world compared to the "New" LH C as there is direct access to the aisle with 1-2-1 configuration and not honeymoon feeling with your neighbour like at LH.
However I still prefer the old AF C over the "new" LH C class as I do not like the position of your legs next to your neighbour with LH. THe new AF C class is something like a different world compared to the "New" LH C as there is direct access to the aisle with 1-2-1 configuration and not honeymoon feeling with your neighbour like at LH.
#18
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,400
LH (and BA) have the advantage, that they have a consistent product. Other airlines have a mix of seat types (recliners, angled flat and flat seats) with subdivisions for each seat type. That doesn't make things easier for customers.
The trouble with a "one seat for one fleet" strategy is however you need to think ahead a lot. This will be even more important for their next seat which will roll out across the LH Group. Your product will need to stay "fresh" for longer. I'm really curious, how the next LH business class seat will look like: Individual seats? 1-2-1 layout? Staggered? etc...?
The trouble with a "one seat for one fleet" strategy is however you need to think ahead a lot. This will be even more important for their next seat which will roll out across the LH Group. Your product will need to stay "fresh" for longer. I'm really curious, how the next LH business class seat will look like: Individual seats? 1-2-1 layout? Staggered? etc...?
#19
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,001
It seems LH is looking at the B/E super diamond and Thompson Vantage XL+ for the next round of retrofits which will start 2020. The biggest problem they face is the ability of the supplier to crank out 300 seats/month during the retrofit period of 2-3 years. Remember LH has one of the largest C cabins and each aircraft needs 48-86 seats, with 4-6 aircraft in retrofit at the same time.
#20
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
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It seems LH is looking at the B/E super diamond and Thompson Vantage XL+ for the next round of retrofits which will start 2020. The biggest problem they face is the ability of the supplier to crank out 300 seats/month during the retrofit period of 2-3 years. Remember LH has one of the largest C cabins and each aircraft needs 48-86 seats, with 4-6 aircraft in retrofit at the same time.
#21
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
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Going with a completely new platform and an unknown supplier for 4000+ seats is probably something that an airline like LH will not do. They learnt that lesson with Recaro in 2003-06.
#22
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: LH FT, AA Plat
Posts: 198
It's pretty disappointing. LH current J product is outdated even though they call it "new", and what they have in store for planes to be delivered in 8 years will be outdated then as well. So much for innovation or keeping up with the competition.
#23
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
I don't think they're trying to 'win' in terms of having the most luxurious J offering. I legit think they figure that being 'good enough' is enough, so that Germany-based elites are OK with sticking with them and people who have to go to FRA or MUC don't book around them. As mentioned, BA are making a lot of money with a very low end J product.
#24
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,783
LH's current high-density J makes me think the airliner would be less likely to step down to a straight 1-2-1 config and more likely to adopt a high-density variant (similar to BA's new Club World finesse) similar to United's Polaris. #PureSpeculation
#25
Suspended
Join Date: May 2011
Location: London
Programs: *A G, OW S.
Posts: 996
I don't think they're trying to 'win' in terms of having the most luxurious J offering. I legit think they figure that being 'good enough' is enough, so that Germany-based elites are OK with sticking with them and people who have to go to FRA or MUC don't book around them. As mentioned, BA are making a lot of money with a very low end J product.
Whether it happens or not is another matter.
#26
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,253
LH was that airline for a long, long time. And to make things worse, it wasn't just "no easy", it was a lottery to guess your seat.
#27
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,400
At this rate I'm not so sure where airlines are heading. Are legacy carriers ( I could see LH or SQ do this) going to push out Y in favor of an F/C/Y+ or even just an C/Y+ layout and have their LCC subsidiaries transport Y passengers or are legacy carriers such as LH slowing phasing out F and we eventually end up with C being the new F, Y+ being the new C and Y being to crappy as usual.
#28
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,253
..At this rate I'm not so sure where airlines are heading. Are legacy carriers ( I could see LH or SQ do this) going to push out Y in favor of an F/C/Y+ or even just an C/Y+ layout and have their LCC subsidiaries transport Y passengers or are legacy carriers such as LH slowing phasing out F and we eventually end up with C being the new F, Y+ being the new C and Y being to crappy as usual.
My sole prediction is that the 777 will be arbiter of the foreseeable future.
#29
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
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Keep dreaming. The 779 can only act as a 744 replacement if it's 10 across in coach, especially if a new C is coming which is bound to be space hogging.
#30
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BSL/FRA or PHL
Programs: LH Miles and More, DL SkyMiles, Bonvoy, Hilton
Posts: 2,335
Perhaps an interesting question is whether the 779 needs to act as a 744 replacement. I am guessing there are some routes in the network where a 744 is overkill anyway.