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LH CC: one mile for two Euros if not using the [German] CC for business

LH CC: one mile for two Euros if not using the [German] CC for business

Old Oct 11, 15, 7:58 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by Lack View Post
I don't think M&M is in a position to charge double for miles vs what it was a couple years ago, so I reckon both sides "trimmed the fat".
I think they are just trying to compensated the new merchant fee regulation which should hit AMEX the most, especially if you got a card like the Nordic AMEX which offers a 2-4-1 award ticket which has significant value and costs for AMEX. Not sure they can keep up with such offers if the merchant fee gets capped.

Again one of the stupid things the EU regulates while ignoring the truly important things... :/
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Old Oct 11, 15, 8:16 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by fassy View Post
I think they are just trying to compensated the new merchant fee regulation which should hit AMEX the most, especially if you got a card like the Nordic AMEX which offers a 2-4-1 award ticket which has significant value and costs for AMEX. Not sure they can keep up with such offers if the merchant fee gets capped.

Again one of the stupid things the EU regulates while ignoring the truly important things... :/
The fees is one revenue stream, interest charge is another.
Governments tend to frown upon competition so I'm not surprised they took action against private turnover tax industry.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 1:23 am
  #18  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
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Originally Posted by malmostoso View Post
I am still amazed every day that this is the country that is OK with Sofortüberweisung, but they can't seem to grasp the concept of credit cards.
Is this way of paying as insecure as I am led to believe? I use it often, at least once a week, and have never had a problem. So far. The only thing I have had a problem with, honestly, is British credit cards. You just have to use them once abroad and they get blocked, for security reasons. And I've had several problems with fraudulent transactions with those cards.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 1:35 am
  #19  
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Re: business vs personal: the way I read it, as it stands if you don't explicitly tell them you need it for personal use, the 'world business' will continue for SEN/HON.

Re: miles cost to DKB: afaik the deal is between M&M and DKB over many years with periodic offtake amounts. So DKB owns and has to hand out the miles no matter what (hence the frequent promos for certain spend or 15k for a DKB depot). What ratio DKB wants to use is upto them, M&M has no say in that.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 2:10 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: AMS/RTM
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Originally Posted by Concerto View Post
Is this way of paying as insecure as I am led to believe? I use it often, at least once a week, and have never had a problem. So far.
It's not that sofortüberweisung is not trustworthy per se, but you are giving them permission to take money from your account by giving them a TAN. This is akin' to giving them your bank card and PIN. If the TAN were to be intercepted, one could possibly siphon your account and you would have no recourse, since you authorized the transaction with the TAN.

I don't think the TAN is linked to the transaction amount, especially if your bank, like mine, still uses the TAN list on paper (!!!).

At least that's the way I understand it, and would of course be happy to be proven wrong (but we're very OT I guess) .
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Old Oct 12, 15, 2:48 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Well there's not a lot there so they will be disappointing it if they try any siphoning.

For those interested, there is a 4,000° Payback point offer for new customers of the Payback AMEX card.

http://aktionen.payback.de/amex/?PID...eCode=60007346
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Old Oct 12, 15, 5:40 am
  #22  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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the "World Business" card is no longer allowed to use for private purposes and moreover the charge for using it in non-EU currency countries will rise from 1,25% to 1,75% from Jan. 1st, 2016! So this card will become really expensive.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 7:22 am
  #23  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
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But I'm not sure what I've got. It's the silver Frequent Traveller card. Is that a 'business' card? I wanted to point out one other benefit of the M&M credit card which I value, apart from the unlimited mileage validity (which I don't really need, being already an FTL). Car rentals paid for with the card are protected by an insurance which means you don't have to pay the excess if you have an incident (for example, a prang in a parking lot and you don't know who it was who dented you). However, I suspect in practice you would have to pay up then go through an endless long lasting reimbursement process. Not having had an incident I just don't know, but I always pay for rentals with the card.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 7:54 am
  #24  
gum
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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American Express widely accepted

Originally Posted by malmostoso View Post
I still have not received any letter, but I found this notice on the credit card website.

Apparently they will introduce a "World Plus" credit card that has all the "World Business" perks for SEN/HON, but with the 2€/1mile ratio.

I'm conflicted about what to do to be honest: I could just switch to the Payback AMEX, but here in Germany I don't think I'd be able to use it anywhere.

Are there any other credit cards in Germany that you know of, that offer the car rental insurance?
Interesting that you bring up the issue with the Card acceptance in Germany, malmostoso!

Openly spoken I haven't had any problems with card acceptance with the American Express Card (not Payback). But the Payback Card is also a standard Credit Card with high-printed name of the card holder and credit card number and so on. Therefore not one of the Mastercard/VISA "clones" which work only prepaid.

If using at non Payback partners you simply get the "base points" and not more. dm, REWE, Tengelmann - no issue.


However there are some alternatives:

Sparkassen cooperation cards

Many Sparkassen offer the opportunity to collect Lufthansa award miles if you keep a current bank account there and have a credit card. Additionally to the price of the card/account package you pay aroung 18-20 Euro per year.

The award miles are transferred once a month and therefore pile up in your Miles & More account. So the usual expiry regime is working.

An example of the "Nassauische Sparkasse"
http://www.naspa.de/privatkunden/gir...sa-miles-more/
or the Förde Sparkasse
https://www.foerde-sparkasse.de/priv...e%2Fdetails%2F

The Munich-based Kreissparkasse does have it also but due to bad personal experience with their advice and reliability (in unrelated events) I couldn't recommend them.

Payback's own VISA Card

This card should be widely accepted. However it has an earning ration of 4 Euro -> 1 Payback point -> 1 award mile

Plus is free cash withdrawal worldwide. From second year it's 25 Euros.

https://www.payback.de/pb/visa/id/14698/


Porsche Credit Card = 215 Euro per year

This is a bundle of the Porsche Credit Card and the Lufthansa Miles & More Credit Card. The stated contact company suggests that the service and the print of the statements is done at the same fulfillment centre (in Passau) then for the classic Sparkassen card.

Overview:
http://www.porschecard.de/privatkund...-s-world-plus/

Main problem: Also changes to the 2:1 ratio like American Express Payback on Jan 1st, 2016.

American Express Payback Galeria Kaufhof Card

Similar point earning ratio and services compared to the American Express Payback card. No yearly fee.

At the moment welcome bonus of 4,000 points = 40 Euro = 4.000 Lufthansa award miles.

https://www.americanexpress.com/de/c...payback-karte/

Also no expiry date of the Payback points: "Sammeln, so lange und so viel Sie wollen. Kein Verfallsdatum. Keine Begrenzung."


Hope you enjoy the vast array of different cards. However this short list is just made as a friendly service for you without any legal obligation.

So you could do a bit of arithtmetic and look which credit card you may use in the future.

Would be fine if you would post the result here - in some weeks.

Last edited by gum; Oct 12, 15 at 8:00 am
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Old Oct 12, 15, 8:41 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Concerto View Post
Car rentals paid for with the card are protected by an insurance which means you don't have to pay the excess if you have an incident (for example, a prang in a parking lot and you don't know who it was who dented you). However, I suspect in practice you would have to pay up then go through an endless long lasting reimbursement process. Not having had an incident I just don't know, but I always pay for rentals with the card.
This is one of the key features I bank on when using the German DKB M&M MC: I rent about 50x a year because I don't own a car. When a damage occurs, DKB hands the case to Victoria/Ergo. They expect the car rental company to charge the damage to your credit card (which Avis does, Europcar sends a separate invoice). Then you send them all the documentation via email and they take the charge off your credit card bill or reimburse you. The insurance company deducts the 230€ SB automatically. Pretty painless.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 9:24 am
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by malmostoso View Post
I am still amazed every day that this is the country that is OK with Sofortüberweisung, but they can't seem to grasp the concept of credit cards.
One reason credit cards WERE not particularly well accepted in Germany was due to the additional cost to the merchant (i.e. the shop/restaurant where you purchase must pay 2-4% of the purchase price as a fee) compared to cash or debit (EC) cards.

HOWEVER, the changes now imposed by the EU bring the cost of accepting credit cards down to a level comparable with debit cards, so more and more places are now accepting credit cards. For example, directly as a result of the the EU legislation Aldi and Lidl have started accepting credit cards.

The flipside to reducing costs to the merchant is the margin for the providers is now reduced. In the majority of cases this is a good thing, however for the relatively small amount of customers gaining additional benefits from using a credit card will now see the benefits reduced.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 9:29 am
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
This is one of the key features I bank on when using the German DKB M&M MC: I rent about 50x a year because I don't own a car. When a damage occurs, DKB hands the case to Victoria/Ergo. They expect the car rental company to charge the damage to your credit card (which Avis does, Europcar sends a separate invoice). Then you send them all the documentation via email and they take the charge off your credit card bill or reimburse you. The insurance company deducts the 230€ SB automatically. Pretty painless.
Thanks for explaining the procedure Oliver. I am in the same situation as you are, but so far I have been luck and have not needed the insurance. But it looks relatively easy!
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Old Oct 12, 15, 9:47 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
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No more BA Visa either

Incidentally, Barclaycard sent me a letter last week to say that they are to terminate their partnership with the Executive Club on 15 December. No more BA miles either. It is getting increasingly difficult to create miles with credit card spending.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 11:40 am
  #29  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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By the way, I also bought the travel insurance package (Reiserücktrittsversicherung) that was offered with the Payback AMEX last year along with 2,000° bonus points. It cost about €230 and seems to cover me for just about anything, but I haven't needed to make a claim so far. This year (August) I called them to renew it (which apparently it would have been if you didn't manually cancel) but I noticed last week that my card hasn't been debited. That's when I got into that tangle with those disinterested call centre people, but they eventually connected me to the right person.

That 'right' person was a bit direct and sharp, but said she would renew it because they had made a mistake, but from the date it ran out (24 August). I have no claims to make in September, but I bet if I had they would have denied it all the way to the second coming. I feel like writing a polite (if I can remain so) complaint about this, saying I think they should offer me the month of September free, i.e. start the insurance later like now. Is it worth it, do you think?
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Old Oct 13, 15, 4:39 am
  #30  
gum
 
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These are two interesting questions

Originally Posted by Concerto View Post
By the way, I also bought the travel insurance package (Reiserücktrittsversicherung) that was offered with the Payback AMEX last year along with 2,000° bonus points. It cost about €230 and seems to cover me for just about anything, but I haven't needed to make a claim so far.
[...]
I feel like writing a polite (if I can remain so) complaint about this, saying I think they should offer me the month of September free, i.e. start the insurance later like now. Is it worth it, do you think?
Please let me divide your contribution into two questions:
1.) Is the travel cancellation insurance worth 230 Euros per year?
2.) Should you write a letter?

Regarding 1.:
It seems that you have made a contract for a bundle of insurances. IMHO the travel cancellation insurance of most providers is not worth the money due to the fact that some insurances exclude pre-existing illnesses and some other companies only pay for severe illness (requiring a hospital treatment).

But it is always up to you which risk/cost assessment you make and what you buy. If you make your bookings yourself and only choose air travel tickets requiring a 100 Euro change fee the cancellation insurance seems to be too expensive.

Regarding 2.)
Not worth your valuable time. If you haven't a proof of your request of concluding the insurance it doesn't make sense. If you have a registered letter then you could be happy that nothing has happened.

In both cases I would rethink twice to pay for the insurance beginning in AUgust 24, 2015. Do you have a right of rescission (not got the product info, distance selling within 14 days etc.)?

Often the earning-cost-ratio for insurance is naturally very favorable for the insurance company.

Sorry that I am not allowed to give advice on insurances but my personal opinion is: Less insurance is better than too much.

Only needed ones are some protection for the retirement and the [in Germany mandatory] health insurance. And the mandatory car insurance.

Sorry for deviating from the original topic.
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