Stick with LH or switch to other airline or program?
Jan 13, 2015, 9:13 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 15
Stick with LH or switch to other airline or program?
Hi all,
I am based in Italy and I have recently started to fly again for work.
I currently am Frequent Traveller with LH, accruing 25% executive bonus, and I currently have 100K miles with LH.
I mainly fly to Germany, US/Canada, and sometimes to Singapore & Australia.
I have read some people switched to other airline programs within Miles and More, or switched completely to other programs.
Within M&M, would it make sense to switch to Aegean? What would I lose / gain?
When considering other programs,
I see that BA and Air France / KLM often appear as valid and sometimes cheaper alternatives to my flights.
What is your recommendation?
Thank you!
Regards
I am based in Italy and I have recently started to fly again for work.
I currently am Frequent Traveller with LH, accruing 25% executive bonus, and I currently have 100K miles with LH.
I mainly fly to Germany, US/Canada, and sometimes to Singapore & Australia.
I have read some people switched to other airline programs within Miles and More, or switched completely to other programs.
Within M&M, would it make sense to switch to Aegean? What would I lose / gain?
When considering other programs,
I see that BA and Air France / KLM often appear as valid and sometimes cheaper alternatives to my flights.
What is your recommendation?
Thank you!
Regards
Jan 13, 2015, 10:49 am
#3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Milano - Wuxi
Programs: TK M&S Elite+ - Marriott Rewards Gold - Hertz 5 Stars
Posts: 147
hi ilnave,
i'm basically in your same situation, except i fly mostly to China/India and i decided to drop M&M for TK M&S.
the reason is pretty simple, and i made similar comments in other discussions...i fly reasonably a lot (over 100.000 miles per year of effective flight), mostly in economy despite some biz and economy+ and it seems LH enjoys to give less and less miles, no matter what. i know i'm not looking for full fares, but try to find a reasonable compromise, however on average even if i have to pay more i prefer to stay with the alliance.
said so, it became mostly impossible for me to reach again 100.000 status miles as most of the time is impossible to get even the full mileage each flight.
i also don't think Silver status is of much use in general, especially if like me my flights are not always from Europe to outside Europe with only one company, but also fly among Asian countries with different companies and happily look for a lounge and extra luggage when i move.
For example i found that when i fly to china to get 100% of the miles need to spend basically 1200€, otherwise you have to stay with 50% or 25% of the earning. cheap flight can be 650€ and i always spend more than this.
moreover, when in november I booked a TK in economy+ to China and got to see that i was getting 25% of status miles instead of 150% (actual award miles given) i got pissed and decided to change as i felt cheated being outside the spirit of an alliance.
My choice was then supported by my following bookings to India and US in Y where i saw that for the same tickets LH would have given me max 50% of the miles wile TK was giving all the time 100%, so what's the point to waste miles?
May be i don't bring thousands and thousands of € each year, but can be a reasonably good customer as i value the loyalty and prefer to pay little more than to change group.
I'm not looking to an easy card that just gift me the status (as Aegean was basically doing), but a solid program where my loyalty seems more appreciated and that can sustain in the long run. Hope TK will match my expectations and after matching the status i hope this year to reach Elite+ by bringing them more biz as my travels are becoming more and more.
I see FFP are becoming more and more unrelated with the concept of loyalty and fly, but becoming independent companies doing a completely different biz.
i'm basically in your same situation, except i fly mostly to China/India and i decided to drop M&M for TK M&S.
the reason is pretty simple, and i made similar comments in other discussions...i fly reasonably a lot (over 100.000 miles per year of effective flight), mostly in economy despite some biz and economy+ and it seems LH enjoys to give less and less miles, no matter what. i know i'm not looking for full fares, but try to find a reasonable compromise, however on average even if i have to pay more i prefer to stay with the alliance.
said so, it became mostly impossible for me to reach again 100.000 status miles as most of the time is impossible to get even the full mileage each flight.
i also don't think Silver status is of much use in general, especially if like me my flights are not always from Europe to outside Europe with only one company, but also fly among Asian countries with different companies and happily look for a lounge and extra luggage when i move.
For example i found that when i fly to china to get 100% of the miles need to spend basically 1200€, otherwise you have to stay with 50% or 25% of the earning. cheap flight can be 650€ and i always spend more than this.
moreover, when in november I booked a TK in economy+ to China and got to see that i was getting 25% of status miles instead of 150% (actual award miles given) i got pissed and decided to change as i felt cheated being outside the spirit of an alliance.
My choice was then supported by my following bookings to India and US in Y where i saw that for the same tickets LH would have given me max 50% of the miles wile TK was giving all the time 100%, so what's the point to waste miles?
May be i don't bring thousands and thousands of € each year, but can be a reasonably good customer as i value the loyalty and prefer to pay little more than to change group.
I'm not looking to an easy card that just gift me the status (as Aegean was basically doing), but a solid program where my loyalty seems more appreciated and that can sustain in the long run. Hope TK will match my expectations and after matching the status i hope this year to reach Elite+ by bringing them more biz as my travels are becoming more and more.
I see FFP are becoming more and more unrelated with the concept of loyalty and fly, but becoming independent companies doing a completely different biz.
Jan 13, 2015, 11:01 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 15
hi, thanks for all this.
A question arises... will I be able to match my current LH status and/or transfer my existing miles?
Is there a downside in having a membership with an airline that I never use and of a country that I never fly through?
thank you
A question arises... will I be able to match my current LH status and/or transfer my existing miles?
Is there a downside in having a membership with an airline that I never use and of a country that I never fly through?
thank you
hi ilnave,
i'm basically in your same situation, except i fly mostly to China/India and i decided to drop M&M for TK M&S.
the reason is pretty simple, and i made similar comments in other discussions...i fly reasonably a lot (over 100.000 miles per year of effective flight), mostly in economy despite some biz and economy+ and it seems LH enjoys to give less and less miles, no matter what. i know i'm not looking for full fares, but try to find a reasonable compromise, however on average even if i have to pay more i prefer to stay with the alliance.
said so, it became mostly impossible for me to reach again 100.000 status miles as most of the time is impossible to get even the full mileage each flight.
i also don't think Silver status is of much use in general, especially if like me my flights are not always from Europe to outside Europe with only one company, but also fly among Asian countries with different companies and happily look for a lounge and extra luggage when i move.
For example i found that when i fly to china to get 100% of the miles need to spend basically 1200€, otherwise you have to stay with 50% or 25% of the earning. cheap flight can be 650€ and i always spend more than this.
moreover, when in november I booked a TK in economy+ to China and got to see that i was getting 25% of status miles instead of 150% (actual award miles given) i got pissed and decided to change as i felt cheated being outside the spirit of an alliance.
My choice was then supported by my following bookings to India and US in Y where i saw that for the same tickets LH would have given me max 50% of the miles wile TK was giving all the time 100%, so what's the point to waste miles?
May be i don't bring thousands and thousands of € each year, but can be a reasonably good customer as i value the loyalty and prefer to pay little more than to change group.
I'm not looking to an easy card that just gift me the status (as Aegean was basically doing), but a solid program where my loyalty seems more appreciated and that can sustain in the long run. Hope TK will match my expectations and after matching the status i hope this year to reach Elite+ by bringing them more biz as my travels are becoming more and more.
I see FFP are becoming more and more unrelated with the concept of loyalty and fly, but becoming independent companies doing a completely different biz.
i'm basically in your same situation, except i fly mostly to China/India and i decided to drop M&M for TK M&S.
the reason is pretty simple, and i made similar comments in other discussions...i fly reasonably a lot (over 100.000 miles per year of effective flight), mostly in economy despite some biz and economy+ and it seems LH enjoys to give less and less miles, no matter what. i know i'm not looking for full fares, but try to find a reasonable compromise, however on average even if i have to pay more i prefer to stay with the alliance.
said so, it became mostly impossible for me to reach again 100.000 status miles as most of the time is impossible to get even the full mileage each flight.
i also don't think Silver status is of much use in general, especially if like me my flights are not always from Europe to outside Europe with only one company, but also fly among Asian countries with different companies and happily look for a lounge and extra luggage when i move.
For example i found that when i fly to china to get 100% of the miles need to spend basically 1200€, otherwise you have to stay with 50% or 25% of the earning. cheap flight can be 650€ and i always spend more than this.
moreover, when in november I booked a TK in economy+ to China and got to see that i was getting 25% of status miles instead of 150% (actual award miles given) i got pissed and decided to change as i felt cheated being outside the spirit of an alliance.
My choice was then supported by my following bookings to India and US in Y where i saw that for the same tickets LH would have given me max 50% of the miles wile TK was giving all the time 100%, so what's the point to waste miles?
May be i don't bring thousands and thousands of € each year, but can be a reasonably good customer as i value the loyalty and prefer to pay little more than to change group.
I'm not looking to an easy card that just gift me the status (as Aegean was basically doing), but a solid program where my loyalty seems more appreciated and that can sustain in the long run. Hope TK will match my expectations and after matching the status i hope this year to reach Elite+ by bringing them more biz as my travels are becoming more and more.
I see FFP are becoming more and more unrelated with the concept of loyalty and fly, but becoming independent companies doing a completely different biz.
Jan 13, 2015, 3:39 pm
#5
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Milano - Wuxi
Programs: TK M&S Elite+ - Marriott Rewards Gold - Hertz 5 Stars
Posts: 147
Hi, not sure you can match a silver status but you can check on the TK forum (status match discussion). Not so very useful in any case...
Surely you cannot transfer your miles to other companies, but if you have LH CC, what you have does not expire, so you can use them in future for awards
In any case with LH you would need 35.000 miles to requalify silver, while wiTh TK you can get to gold with 40.000 and in case your status with LH is still valid you can use for lounge access on LH flights also when cumulating miles on TK (or others) by showing the card at the entrance of the LH lounge
Surely you cannot transfer your miles to other companies, but if you have LH CC, what you have does not expire, so you can use them in future for awards
In any case with LH you would need 35.000 miles to requalify silver, while wiTh TK you can get to gold with 40.000 and in case your status with LH is still valid you can use for lounge access on LH flights also when cumulating miles on TK (or others) by showing the card at the entrance of the LH lounge
Jan 13, 2015, 5:09 pm
#6
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
ilnave - this decision will be very difficult to make without knowing what COS and what fare buckets you will travel in the average. Also the devolution of M&M is a bumpy road down the toilet but the future details are unknown to us.
In the past, the recommendation was the easy "if you fly Biz or F stick with M&M, otherwise switch" isn't a trivial one anymore as LH started to not award 'normal' Biz fares (as in less flexible fares) properly anymore.
But if you keep flying LH, then there are only few programs that give you credit for discounted fare buckets. So the traditional trick of ignoring M&M and using LH doesn't work either universally.
I do the latter - I am UA*G for life and fly LH quite regularly. On the cheapest fares you don't get any miles on UA but you get all *G privileges and these are quite useful for me.
Jan 14, 2015, 2:02 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 15
That was quite an astute summary for the FFPs of the large *A carriers.
ilnave - this decision will be very difficult to make without knowing what COS and what fare buckets you will travel in the average. Also the devolution of M&M is a bumpy road down the toilet but the future details are unknown to us.
ilnave - this decision will be very difficult to make without knowing what COS and what fare buckets you will travel in the average. Also the devolution of M&M is a bumpy road down the toilet but the future details are unknown to us.
What does COS mean?
Regarding flight fares, I must adhere to a corporate travel policy that recommends to use the cheapest fare (not necessarily LH at all) and allows business class above 10 hrs flight.
Thank you again
Jan 14, 2015, 2:49 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
M&M is great if you qualify "naturally".
It would be silly to undertake extensive mileage runs or make any great effort to attain and maintain M&M membership otherwise. Better to go for the easier-to-get status of other Star members.
But watch out for award miles expiring, and the fare-category/airlines excluded from crediting miles. Careful with Aegean, which isn't all it was.
Note that M&M is a two-year membership, giving you a fallow year to recoup status in another programme
That's exhausted my list of M&M positives.
It would be silly to undertake extensive mileage runs or make any great effort to attain and maintain M&M membership otherwise. Better to go for the easier-to-get status of other Star members.
But watch out for award miles expiring, and the fare-category/airlines excluded from crediting miles. Careful with Aegean, which isn't all it was.
Note that M&M is a two-year membership, giving you a fallow year to recoup status in another programme
That's exhausted my list of M&M positives.
Jan 14, 2015, 3:48 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 15
M&M is great if you qualify "naturally".
It would be silly to undertake extensive mileage runs or make any great effort to attain and maintain M&M membership otherwise. Better to go for the easier-to-get status of other Star members.
But watch out for award miles expiring, and the fare-category/airlines excluded from crediting miles. Careful with Aegean, which isn't all it was.
Note that M&M is a two-year membership, giving you a fallow year to recoup status in another programme That's exhausted my list of M&M positives.
It would be silly to undertake extensive mileage runs or make any great effort to attain and maintain M&M membership otherwise. Better to go for the easier-to-get status of other Star members.
But watch out for award miles expiring, and the fare-category/airlines excluded from crediting miles. Careful with Aegean, which isn't all it was.
Note that M&M is a two-year membership, giving you a fallow year to recoup status in another programme
That's exhausted my list of M&M positives.Not sure I get your last point about the two-year membership with M&M...
thanks
Jan 14, 2015, 6:56 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
Class of Service.
Does your employer have negotiated fares with LH? This discount biz tickets do not give many miles anymore either. You might be better off collecting with UA MP and collect the larger elite bonus on LH flight than M&M offers.
But you have to do the math if that is worthwile to you.
It may also be just overall more pleasant to simply try to fly good airlines. CX, NH, SQ all have products which are a lot better than LH's from most angles other than just miles.
These days, I would not focus on the FFP anymore ... it's simply an obstacle for your travel joy and planning with it wastes a lot of time.
Also if you have to take the airline to court, it is sooooo much easier if you are not an elite of theirs ...
..use the cheapest fare (not necessarily LH at all) and allows business class above 10 hrs flight
But you have to do the math if that is worthwile to you.
It may also be just overall more pleasant to simply try to fly good airlines. CX, NH, SQ all have products which are a lot better than LH's from most angles other than just miles.
These days, I would not focus on the FFP anymore ... it's simply an obstacle for your travel joy and planning with it wastes a lot of time.
Also if you have to take the airline to court, it is sooooo much easier if you are not an elite of theirs ...
Jan 14, 2015, 8:01 am
#11
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: TRN
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 67
IMHO the real question is if it really makes sense to stricktly stick to a FFP.
I based in Italy too, became senator last year and basically fly to HKG and Southern Africa countries. LH offers the shortest connection times; quite frequently I cannot even visit the lounge due to the short connection.
In the past I've investigated AF and TK, unfortunately BA flies to Gatwick from my location, but the layover is much longer. Still prefer missing the LH lounge than stayiong maybe 3 hours waiting.
Advantages the 2 vouchers. Select Miles are ridiculous
I based in Italy too, became senator last year and basically fly to HKG and Southern Africa countries. LH offers the shortest connection times; quite frequently I cannot even visit the lounge due to the short connection.
In the past I've investigated AF and TK, unfortunately BA flies to Gatwick from my location, but the layover is much longer. Still prefer missing the LH lounge than stayiong maybe 3 hours waiting.
Advantages the 2 vouchers. Select Miles are ridiculous
Jan 14, 2015, 2:47 pm
#12
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Milano - Wuxi
Programs: TK M&S Elite+ - Marriott Rewards Gold - Hertz 5 Stars
Posts: 147
think all depends form each one way of travelling
for example i prefer to take my time and have little longer connection, which allows to have less chances to miss the second leg in case of issues.
if then the flights are ontime i enjoy to read a newspaper in the lounge and to get food there (especially in IST lounge!!!) as lounge food is often much better than Y food on the plane.
BTW concerning negotiated fares with LH, 2 years ago i contacted with them to see if possible to have company fares to regroup several traveller among my partners. it was indeed a funny experience as the Y fares where giving something like 5% discount form the highest class...i think nobody pays such kind of price even booking the day of the flight...and to get these special rates you should guarantee a crazy budget which was not based on the actual fare booked, but on the price of the ticket (deducted fuel surcharge and other fake expenses) which is indeed the smallest part of the fare itself...
i don't know if oil and gas people can get super low fares due to big number of tickets issued, or simply they can afford to pay the ridiculous tariffs offered with the only exchange to give full flexibility.
as i stated before, loyalty is no more among us...
for example i prefer to take my time and have little longer connection, which allows to have less chances to miss the second leg in case of issues.
if then the flights are ontime i enjoy to read a newspaper in the lounge and to get food there (especially in IST lounge!!!) as lounge food is often much better than Y food on the plane.
BTW concerning negotiated fares with LH, 2 years ago i contacted with them to see if possible to have company fares to regroup several traveller among my partners. it was indeed a funny experience as the Y fares where giving something like 5% discount form the highest class...i think nobody pays such kind of price even booking the day of the flight...and to get these special rates you should guarantee a crazy budget which was not based on the actual fare booked, but on the price of the ticket (deducted fuel surcharge and other fake expenses) which is indeed the smallest part of the fare itself...
i don't know if oil and gas people can get super low fares due to big number of tickets issued, or simply they can afford to pay the ridiculous tariffs offered with the only exchange to give full flexibility.
as i stated before, loyalty is no more among us...
Jan 14, 2015, 2:50 pm
#13
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Milano - Wuxi
Programs: TK M&S Elite+ - Marriott Rewards Gold - Hertz 5 Stars
Posts: 147
this way you can either have to chances, or, if you prefer you can use one of the two years to earn the status with another company while enjoying the privileges acquired with the first one at the same time.
personally i decided for turkish and also did the matching for convenience (better to use one card only instead of two as sometimes it might be little annoying), even if i could simply qualify over this year without the matching.
Jan 15, 2015, 1:26 am
#14
Moderator, Turkish Airlines Miles&Smiles & Accor ALL
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BRU
Programs: TK*G, Accor ALL Platinum
Posts: 7,586
You can find all the TK Miles&Smiles details here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/turki...es-smiles-641/
Jan 17, 2015, 10:35 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: POZ
Programs: LH*S (FTL), OZ*G, Accor gold, HH Diamond
Posts: 270
M&M never was a good choice for economy flyers, but after last year enhancements is extremely poor. If your priority is status better is to switch to TK, if you prefer award flights it is better to switch to UA (on LH award fee are terrible, usually higher than cheap economy ticket on the same route).
The worst is, that after last earning enhancements you will not get any miles on most other Star Alliance FFP , so there is no point to take ECO LH flights anymore.
The worst is, that after last earning enhancements you will not get any miles on most other Star Alliance FFP , so there is no point to take ECO LH flights anymore.