Am I entitled to compensation? [merged]

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Old Feb 12, 19, 9:16 am
  #421  
 
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The H4 hotel (which I had the - ummm - pleasure myself once) is - at least in my opinion - perfectly fine for a simple overnight. Usually, pickup service is provided (but if no one shows up at the time provided, obviously a taxi is reasonable)

The buffet which was offered when I was there was reasonable (and while NOT something I'd pick, definitely passes as "duty of care") - a fridge definitely isn't mentioned in EU261 to be provided - if you had any perishable medicin, I'm more than sure the hotel would have been happy to help to have you use their (kitchen) fridge.

IF you dont' want to eat whats offered on the buffet (one item? really? somehow I doubt that.. maybe just one main dish? But even at my 9.30pm visit, they had like 3 or 4 main dishes..), you could have always ordered some delivery food I guess.. from what I remember, the H4 hotel had room service which the voucher could also have been applied to. And basically the accomodation + food is really just meant for basic stuff..

And please don't try to play the "muuuuuuh VIP" card (as you seem to do). That simply is going to give you absolutely no sympathy what-so-ever.

Again, if you feel like the reason was NOT extraordinary, either get a lawyer (risky, unless you're 100% sure) or an EU261 claim agency (they're really all the same..)
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Old Feb 12, 19, 10:25 am
  #422  
 
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Originally Posted by YuropFlyer View Post
The H4 hotel (which I had the - ummm - pleasure myself once) is - at least in my opinion - perfectly fine for a simple overnight. Usually, pickup service is provided (but if no one shows up at the time provided, obviously a taxi is reasonable)

The buffet which was offered when I was there was reasonable (and while NOT something I'd pick, definitely passes as "duty of care") - a fridge definitely isn't mentioned in EU261 to be provided - if you had any perishable medicin, I'm more than sure the hotel would have been happy to help to have you use their (kitchen) fridge.

IF you dont' want to eat whats offered on the buffet (one item? really? somehow I doubt that.. maybe just one main dish? But even at my 9.30pm visit, they had like 3 or 4 main dishes..), you could have always ordered some delivery food I guess.. from what I remember, the H4 hotel had room service which the voucher could also have been applied to. And basically the accomodation + food is really just meant for basic stuff..

And please don't try to play the "muuuuuuh VIP" card (as you seem to do). That simply is going to give you absolutely no sympathy what-so-ever.

Again, if you feel like the reason was NOT extraordinary, either get a lawyer (risky, unless you're 100% sure) or an EU261 claim agency (they're really all the same..)
The hotel took our food voucher at check-in. We then discovered when we came back downstairs the "restaurant" had Penne pasta with meat, or without meat, that's it.
The hotel was not happy to store stuff in their fridge, the person who needed to store their medical supplies was in tears.
Transport wise their shuttle took 12 people at a time, Lufthansa were sending a constant stream of people outside, I have a nice photo of the angry crowd, this was 3 hours in.

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Old Feb 13, 19, 10:59 am
  #423  
 
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Lufthansa invites me to dinner

After I complained online, with a faint hope for a few extra miles, about an unpleasant situation I had experienced on board, Lufthansa replied that they "invite me to dinner" in the amount of EUR 100
Luckily, no food stamps The money will be transferred to my account. The complaint was not about the food, however, I apprecciate the subtle way in which Lufthansa express themselves
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Old Feb 13, 19, 11:16 am
  #424  
 
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I noticed on the system that LH use for HOTAC that there are different levels of hotels for status/premium pax. When I pointed out I was Gold, the option was changed and I was put in the Kempinski Gravenbuch. There, the option is a la carte.

I know that is a last resort hotel for LH at that price level, but otherwise I've always ended up in the Sheraton.
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Old Feb 13, 19, 11:24 am
  #425  
 
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Originally Posted by andywaw View Post
After I complained online, with a faint hope for a few extra miles, about an unpleasant situation I had experienced on board, Lufthansa replied that they "invite me to dinner" in the amount of EUR 100
Luckily, no food stamps The money will be transferred to my account. The complaint was not about the food, however, I apprecciate the subtle way in which Lufthansa express themselves
Thatís been an LX approach when things go wrong for a while, maybe LH are now taking it up
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Old Mar 27, 19, 4:32 am
  #426  
 
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Looking for advice on this issue. I was traveling ORD-FRA-PRG, LH431 to LH1392. This is a 85 minute connection by schedule, so within MCT.

LH431 arrived early; but there were huge immigration delays at Schengen immigration (non-EU passport) and it took me about ~80 minutes to clear immigration. I arrived at the LH1392 gate after departure. Gate agents wouldn't rebook me; lounge agents wouldn't rebook me; and due to the hundreds of misconnections caused by the immigration delays, the service center took over an hour to rebook me, meaning I missed LH1394 and ended up on LH1396 putting me into PRG more than 4 hours late (by both schedule and actual arrival). The rebooking process was very frustrating since it took them <90 seconds to rebook, but the process of getting to an agent that could rebook me was very tedious. If it had been handled faster, I would have made LH1394 and been happy.

LH is trying to blame this on ATC and saying that there is no eligibility for compensation under EC261. There was no ATC delays (although I'm aware of the ATC issues in FRA) that caused my delay.

Is there a case for EC261 compensation? The service desk that rebooked me was taking notes of the number of pax impacted by Bundespolizei delays (I was the 15th for that particular agent); and it seems to me that since LH could have got me to my final destination faster, that LH bears some responsibility here.
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Old Mar 27, 19, 5:56 am
  #427  
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No. For a variety of reasons.

To set the facts in the first instance. You were on a Type 3 flight ORD-PRG with a connection at FRA and thus delay compensation does not begin until after 3 hours (EUR 300) or 4 hours (EUR 600). Your original delay was not attributable to or caused by LH, but rather by the German government. One can theorize all one wants about why immigration was backed up, but air carriers cannot do more than estimate what a given government will do on a given day. Carriers also cannot be responsible for whatever delay the German government chose to impose on this passenger because he had a non-EU passport.

That is the end of LH's obligation.

In this case, LH was not dealing with a misconnecting passenger, but one where it needed to waive its fare rules because it had not caused a delay. If that took more time than the passenger would have prefered, that is a customer service not an EC 261/2004 issue. But, in any event, had he been rebooked on LH 1394 (presuming availability, which we do not know) scheduled to arrive at 1125, but wound up on 1396 scheduled to arrive at 14:05, that is only a 2:40 delay (presuming that the PRG flight met its schedule) and thus no compensation is due in any event.

No matter how one slices this, OP has a complaint against the German government and nothing more.
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Old Mar 27, 19, 6:35 am
  #428  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
No. For a variety of reasons.

To set the facts in the first instance. You were on a Type 3 flight ORD-PRG with a connection at FRA and thus delay compensation does not begin until after 3 hours (EUR 300) or 4 hours (EUR 600). Your original delay was not attributable to or caused by LH, but rather by the German government. One can theorize all one wants about why immigration was backed up, but air carriers cannot do more than estimate what a given government will do on a given day. Carriers also cannot be responsible for whatever delay the German government chose to impose on this passenger because he had a non-EU passport.

That is the end of LH's obligation.

In this case, LH was not dealing with a misconnecting passenger, but one where it needed to waive its fare rules because it had not caused a delay. If that took more time than the passenger would have prefered, that is a customer service not an EC 261/2004 issue. But, in any event, had he been rebooked on LH 1394 (presuming availability, which we do not know) scheduled to arrive at 1125, but wound up on 1396 scheduled to arrive at 14:05, that is only a 2:40 delay (presuming that the PRG flight met its schedule) and thus no compensation is due in any event.

No matter how one slices this, OP has a complaint against the German government and nothing more.
I appreciate the response; and it is helpful.

I'm not particularly arguing this one way or another, but it does seem to be a particularly tricky combination of issues: I equally can't control immigration at a transit airport. LH sold a ticket which complied to the MCT that they set, knowing that passengers had to clear Schengen immigration at the transit point. The immigration delay was not my responsibility as I was processed by the Bundespolizei agent in <60s, but rather the fact that it took 80-ish minutes to get to the agent. There were no LH agents trying to assist tight-connecting pax at the immigration checkpoint (nor were the Bundespolizei, nor was the sole FRA queue wrangler).

If LH had been willing to rebook me when I got to the gate (09:05), I would have been able to make LH1394 (per ExpertFlyer it was showing availability) and arrived at PRG with a delay of 1h20m which I would have been fine with. The gate agents and lounge agents couldn't rebook me (the lounge tried, but couldn't), so the resulting delayed arrival was by schedule 14:05 instead of 10:05 (actual arrival was 14:25).

It seems somewhat odd that there is no responsibility to the airline, given the airline has data on pax misconnections due to immigration delays (non-pax-caused) and sell connections that may not be achievable due to "whatever the government will do on a given day".
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Old Mar 27, 19, 6:45 am
  #429  
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It is not your fault. Nobody would suggest that it was. But, it is not LH's fault that an entirely workable connection failed because a German government agency failed to properly staff its border control function. The question here is not blame but whether LH has duty to pay compensation for your delay under a law. That law, EC 261/2004 is binary. Sometimes it works in your favor and would afford compensation where one might logically argue none ought to be due and at other times, it does not.
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Old Mar 27, 19, 6:54 am
  #430  
 
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That's a good explanation, and thanks for the advice. Regarding the point about customer service gesture, LH gave a hard no on that.

Whatever is/was bugging the Bundespolizei seemed to be a problem at FRA/MUC on 24MAR19. There were several hundred people that missed connections just while I was there; and colleagues going through immigration the same day (at different times, and at both FRA and MUC) all noted that the queues were significant. The odd thing is that some passengers were being scrutinized extremely closely (fingerprints, producing documents supporting their travel, etc); and others were more or less waved through with barely a word (like me).
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Old Mar 27, 19, 4:10 pm
  #431  
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Those additional details are helpful.

Sometimes there are random crackdowns which can slow the process down appreciably. Those are kept close hold for obvious reasons and LH has no ability to control for those nor should it.
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