Am I entitled to compensation? [merged]

Reply

Old Feb 8, 19, 12:40 pm
  #406  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: European: ZRH, Asian: SIN
Posts: 7,188
Was the flight from Leipzig to Frankfurt and from Frankfurt to New York on the same ticket?

If LH did provide a hotel to you in FRA (due to it being on one ticket, see above), the term "stranded" most certainly overblows the whole situation quite massively - you simply were delayed but taken care of with food & accomodation from what it looks like?

What was the reason given (at the airport - more probably the real reason) for the delay?

As MichielR already mentioned, leave everything else but the facts out. Passport / Fare paid does count absolutely nothing in terms of EU261.
YuropFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 12:44 pm
  #407  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by MichielR View Post

LH can’t just absolve itself of rsponsibility by claiming a mysterious 3rd party messed up.

Oh they're trying this is their next reply
The irregularity on your flight LH 163 was caused by a third party and, therefore, outside of our control. We ask for your understanding that we can only be held liable for issues which lie within our responsibility. However, we would be pleased to reimburse your incurred expenses amounting to USD 98. Kindly forward your complete bank details such as name on the account, routing number and account number.


I was on this flight with multiple other people, and even more people had the same LEJ-FRA-JFK connection go wrong the day before, Lufthansa told them "weather = no compensation", so LH are changing up their story.
sgolby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 1:28 pm
  #408  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by YuropFlyer View Post
Was the flight from Leipzig to Frankfurt and from Frankfurt to New York on the same ticket?

If LH did provide a hotel to you in FRA (due to it being on one ticket, see above), the term "stranded" most certainly overblows the whole situation quite massively - you simply were delayed but taken care of with food & accomodation from what it looks like?

What was the reason given (at the airport - more probably the real reason) for the delay?

As MichielR already mentioned, leave everything else but the facts out. Passport / Fare paid does count absolutely nothing in terms of EU261.
I was trying to determine if EU261 applied only to citizens of the EU, and if they were giving me the shaft due to being from the USA.

Yes it was the same ticket.

It was 4 hours of being sent all around Frankfurt airport, multiple different service desks, then standing outside waiting for a non-existent shuttle bus, before we got to a 2 star motel. The way Lufthansa treated us on the day was awful. As for the food we were given a 20 voucher, but the "restaurant" only had 1 food option penne pasta being served in a buffet. So why you are technically correct on the "food & accomodation" I'd hardly say we were taken care of very well. There is a reason I bring up business class, I've been told we should have gotten taxi vouchers and a 4 star hotel downtown, we did not. Is stranded that harsh a word when being treated like this?

I've cut this out of the replies to Lufthansa as suggested and still they are singing and dancing saying they'll give me USD 98.

A large group of people went to the same event in Leipzig and returned to New York on either Tuesday or Wednesday. There has to be 15 people I know personally this same type of thing happened to. Lufthansa have given them a variety of excuses given from "weather" to "out of our control". I wasn't told anything directly at the airport for the cause of the delay, since then I've been told by Lufthansa (and I quote) "caused by a third party" & "irregularity on your flight".
sgolby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 1:54 pm
  #409  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 8
Have a question regarding a cancelled Austrian flight, originally was booked from VIE -> YYZ OS71 via Aeroplan miles on November 4, 2018. I initially found out about the cancellation when I tried to check in about 18 hours before, was given an error message saying OLCI was not opened and saw the booking was updated to reflect a departure on Nov. 5, 2018 now instead. When I called to inquire what happened, both Austrian and Aeroplan claimed that the flight was cancelled months ago, and the booking was changed to reflect that (and claim I was notified).

I've scoured my emails, from both aeroplan and austrian, and have no record of it all being sent to me. I monitor my emails quite well so something like this I don't feel i would have missed, and after inspection seems that I did not miss it. I'm on aeroplans emails as I get there booking and advertisements all the time. For Austrians part, they for sure have my email in their system as I made a seat reservation over the phone and sent myself the itinerary on their website to my email, so they do have it. I will be trying to claim EU 261 compensation on the fact that while it was not cancelled within the two week period, I am claiming as no advance notice was given by the airline to myself in writing to my email, which they had. I have no doubt they will claim they did and deny, so would then seek to have it addressed by the austrian regulator, asking that they furnish some kind of electronic record it was sent. Am I crazy and is this a lost cause? Thanks in advance for any input.

**As a relevant side note, emailed them later requesting a confirmation of cancellation for travel insurance purposes, received this response:

Thank you for your email.

This is hereby to confirm that flight OS71 from Vienna to Toronto on November 4, 2018 was cancelled due to operational reasons or airline responsibility.

We hope that this will suffice for whatever legal purpose it may serve.

Sincerely,
HighgateFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 2:28 pm
  #410  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: European: ZRH, Asian: SIN
Posts: 7,188
Originally Posted by sgolby View Post

It was 4 hours of being sent all around Frankfurt airport, multiple different service desks, then standing outside waiting for a non-existent shuttle bus, before we got to a 2 star motel. The way Lufthansa treated us on the day was awful. As for the food we were given a 20 voucher, but the "restaurant" only had 1 food option penne pasta being served in a buffet. So why you are technically correct on the "food & accomodation" I'd hardly say we were taken care of very well. There is a reason I bring up business class, I've been told we should have gotten taxi vouchers and a 4 star hotel downtown, we did not. Is stranded that harsh a word when being treated like this?
Personally, I've heard from *G members who were treated the same. Were you put in the Intercity Hotel by any chance? (the one near FRA airport is really bad!)

a "4 star hotel downtown" is definitely not something you "should" have been given - it HEAVILY depends whats actually available. While guests in C (or higher status) tend to get better hotels, there is no rule (and no obligation by LH) to get you more than basic accomodation + a meal.. and while a 20 food voucher isn't great, it definitely gets the job done.

So, while you might indeed NOT have been taken care well, I would say you WERE taken care off, so it's really just the 600 LH owes you (per pax) - plus the taxi (since it seems they didn't provide transport)..

That is, unless they can prove it wasn't extraordinary (which apparently, it looks like they can't)

I'd insist that you know the law and they better pay up, or else you'll hire a German lawyer (well - or an EU261 collection agency..) to get the money for you. That's what I'd write in your answer to them..
YuropFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 2:48 pm
  #411  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: European: ZRH, Asian: SIN
Posts: 7,188
I think it boils down to wherever they informed you (and can prove it) or not. Usually, airlines DO inform passengers (it's in their own interest) and are actually going the extra mile to make sure it's received (some go an extra mile, others maybe just a few meters..)

Their system probably does have some record that you've got informed (by email most likely) - in that case your case would indeed by lost.

I must assume the flight DID got cancelled months before (or at least 15+ days in advance) so they'd not be due any compensation no matter what. So it was in their own interest to inform you.

E-Mails can get lost (just like regular mail! which is, in my opinion, why SOME communication - and an information about a cancelled flight is one of them - needs to be confirmed or otherwise it's "not delivered" in my opinion, but this is NOT the law..)

It's possible their email got lost in your spam box, somehow a rule moved it somewhere, it wasn't relayed properly, your email provider had an issue at that time (or their system..) - they might inquire within their IT systems when (and to which address) it was sent, you might be able to figure out what happened due to it..

You can play hardball (You didn't inform me, you're due EU261, or else I'll get a lawyer (or compensation agency) ) but they can play hardball too (We informed you. No money for you) and put the risk onto you to take a lawyer (no EU261 agency will take a case like this to my knowledge) and possibly lose the case.

I'd try to negotiate with them. Telling them you didn't receive any email (and possibly tell them the email address you were expecting it), that you don't run a spam engine, and tell them to prove they've sent it.

Possible their call center handling your request will not want to go the technical way and ask the IT guys to get some months-old mail logs and offer you a (reasonable) voucher, which you might or might not want to take. Or they actually might offer you the 600€ EU261 compensation, in case they don't really have any proof. (And which means that their systems basically were faulty.. LH group is famous for it's excellent level of IT..)
YuropFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 7:07 pm
  #412  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, France
Programs: LH HON, AF/KL Gold; HHilton Diamond; Marriott Gold; GHA Black; IHG Gold; Avis PresClub
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by chris63 View Post


Yes, it’s a contract to be transported from A to B, IMHO the option given to the OP which involved a 2 hr Bus ride was unreasonable but let’s await the outcome.

In your example, if you accepted the train from the outset it’s ok, if a flight is cancelled & you then have to take the train you should be compensated unless it’s extraordinarily circumstances.
No. For example, if one is booked on a flight LHxxx from FRA to STR and this flight is cancelled and one is rebooked on LHyyy, operated by Deutsche Bahn, to ZWS and this flight arrives less than 2 hours later in Stuttgart, one is not due to compensation, as both are LH flights.
If chris63 would be right one easily could argue that compensation is due, if I am not rebooked on an LH flight, but onto a LXyyy / THzzz or UAbbb flight, as this is a different carrier.
athome is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 10:42 pm
  #413  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON**,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 2,083
Originally Posted by athome View Post
No. For example, if one is booked on a flight LHxxx from FRA to STR and this flight is cancelled and one is rebooked on LHyyy, operated by Deutsche Bahn, to ZWS and this flight arrives less than 2 hours later in Stuttgart, one is not due to compensation, as both are LH flights.
If chris63 would be right one easily could argue that compensation is due, if I am not rebooked on an LH flight, but onto a LXyyy / THzzz or UAbbb flight, as this is a different carrier.
Yes, I understand but happen to know LH does compensate pax if a flight is cancelled & they end up having to take a train.
chris63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 8, 19, 11:50 pm
  #414  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, France
Programs: LH HON, AF/KL Gold; HHilton Diamond; Marriott Gold; GHA Black; IHG Gold; Avis PresClub
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by chris63 View Post


Yes, I understand but happen to know LH does compensate pax if a flight is cancelled & they end up having to take a train.
What LH is willing to do (e,g, going the extra mile for high valued customers) and what LH is enforced to do are two different stories.
athome is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 9, 19, 1:18 am
  #415  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON**,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 2,083
Originally Posted by athome View Post
What LH is willing to do (e,g, going the extra mile for high valued customers) and what LH is enforced to do are two different stories.
Agree completely, LH is not known for its generosity when it comes to compensation
chris63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 9, 19, 1:22 am
  #416  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 983
Originally Posted by sgolby View Post
I've cut this out of the replies to Lufthansa as suggested and still they are singing and dancing saying they'll give me USD 98..
If you get the 600 compensation depends on the reason for the delay (I assume for the flight from LEJ to FRA). From your posts I cannot work out the reason, but if it was anything within the airlines responsibility (crew issues, mechanical problem with the plane, catering truck hitting the plane) then you could have a valid claim. If the reason for the delay was outside of the airlines control (reasons tested in court include: weather, ATC, bird strikes, security delays) then no compensation is due.

What reason was given for the delay when you were on the plane?

From other posts (where the OP reports back) and my experience LH is reasonably good about paying compensation.
8420PR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 10:27 am
  #417  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by 8420PR View Post
If you get the €600 compensation depends on the reason for the delay (I assume for the flight from LEJ to FRA). From your posts I cannot work out the reason, but if it was anything within the airlines responsibility (crew issues, mechanical problem with the plane, catering truck hitting the plane) then you could have a valid claim. If the reason for the delay was outside of the airlines control (reasons tested in court include: weather, ATC, bird strikes, security delays) then no compensation is due.

What reason was given for the delay when you were on the plane?

From other posts (where the OP reports back) and my experience LH is reasonably good about paying compensation.
When I pointed out the flight didn't even leave until a day later this is what they wrote back No compensation due to "flight irregularity". In previous they have said "caused by a third party" and to other people I know traveling on the same fight & the same pair of flights the day before they have told different stories. The core reason is they've made the connection too short for when they fail to fly on time, there was on earlier timetables 1h 45m in Frankfurt, now it's 1h. They used to have a margin for error, now they don't.

I didn't hear any reason on the plane & the service center in Frankfurt airport didn't give any reason. That ground service is one of the main reasons I want compensation, 4 hours of jerking us around is not acceptable.

Thank you for your continued correspondence.

As advised, we are unable to compensate you for the flight irregularity. However, we will pay for the incurred expenses amounting to USD 98. Kindly send us your bank details so we can process the payment.

Thank you for understanding in this regard.
sgolby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 10:35 am
  #418  
2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: BRU
Programs: BA Gold, *G (TK)
Posts: 1,871
As promised, I'm here with my update/outcome regarding the claim for a cancelled BRU-TRN flight by SN for technical reasons, where I re-booked via MUC on LH and arrived 5 hours later than scheduled.
The claim seems to have been accepted for a compensation of 250 eur.

From the e-mail received:
it appears that your flight SN3195, Brussels - Turin, of 04th February 2019 was cancelled because of operational problems.
In line with Regulation (EC) No 261/2004, I confirm that we will offer compensation to the amount of EUR250.00.
By the way, regarding the point that having chosen the "longer" option made me ineligible for any sort of compensation: if EC261 applies equally to any EU airline, then it seems that for flights under 1500 km, arriving late than 2 hrs entitles to 125 eur compensation. So, even if I had chosen the LIN+Bus option, I would have been eligible for a compensation of at least 125 eur.
Lefly is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 11:01 am
  #419  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON**,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 2,083
Originally Posted by Lefly View Post
As promised, I'm here with my update/outcome regarding the claim for a cancelled BRU-TRN flight by SN for technical reasons, where I re-booked via MUC on LH and arrived 5 hours later than scheduled.
The claim seems to have been accepted for a compensation of 250 eur.

From the e-mail received:


By the way, regarding the point that having chosen the "longer" option made me ineligible for any sort of compensation: if EC261 applies equally to any EU airline, then it seems that for flights under 1500 km, arriving late than 2 hrs entitles to 125 eur compensation. So, even if I had chosen the LIN+Bus option, I would have been eligible for a compensation of at least 125 eur.
Good result
chris63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 19, 9:56 am
  #420  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by YuropFlyer View Post
Personally, I've heard from *G members who were treated the same. Were you put in the Intercity Hotel by any chance? (the one near FRA airport is really bad!)

That is, unless they can prove it wasn't extraordinary (which apparently, it looks like they can't)

I'd insist that you know the law and they better pay up, or else you'll hire a German lawyer (well - or an EU261 collection agency..) to get the money for you. That's what I'd write in your answer to them..
It was the H4 hotel. The hotel rooms were ok, it's just there was no refrigerator needed to store medical supplies & there was no food beyond 1 item on the buffet, which some people couldn't eat.

Lufthansa are writing back that the case is closed because they've already considered the "facts" even though they've provided nothing beyond "caused by a third party" & "irregularity on your flight" for offering me $98.

What is the right place with the EU to submit a formal complaint?
Any suggestions for an EU261 collection agency?

Lufthansa clearly aren't seeing the trouble they're bringing on themselves, they did this to people returning from a music festival, including Bands & DJs. I can't fathom how many total fans/followers they all have (it's 28,552 in our festival Facebook group alone) and some of them are more angry than I am, the people that flew the day before me were treated even worse apparently.
sgolby is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description: