warakorn

Well, Lufthansa should have listed to the weather report and let the crew transfer to the airport an hour earlier.
This is well within the responsibility of Lufthansa.

schrodingerdog

Exactly.

That was the central point of my complaint. Also the fact that consider heavy rain 'extraordinary' in Manchester is... not very attached to reality

cbkabroad

Hello, could you please tell me if I'm allowed compensation?

Austrian Air, VIE to AMM, originally scheduled for a 1020hrs departure, 1455 arrival. Arrived at the airport to find the flight was cancelled for "technical reasons". They offered to reroute us on a flight with a 0200hrs arrival time, which we declined. Instead, we took the next day's same flight, arriving at 1455hrs, just one day late.

When I asked for food and hotel vouchers, they offered 18 Euros worth of vouchers to be used at the airport, and no hotel, since my initial offered flight would have departed around 1700. My credit card insurance had to pick up the tab for a place to stay that night.

Fabo.sk

Since you have declined the proposed solution, they might have a case that you declined their offer. Defintely not a case for Duty to Care.

You might have a case with compensation if you have any record of their initial offer.

William13

Good Afternoon Armchair Experts!

Here's one for you: NCE > ZRH > TXL

Delays out of NCE caused the wife & myself to miss our connection in ZRH. We had to overnight and hop a flight to TXL the next morning. I submitted the usual EU261 paperwork requesting compensation for the delay (2 * €250) plus hotel. Yesterday I received the following email:

*****************
Your flight LX569 on 29 September 2018 unfortunately could not land on time in Zurich. On behalf of SWISS and our cooperation partners, I apologize for the inconvenience you had as a result.
I would like to inform you that your flight LX 569 was delayed due to an aircraft rotation which was a result of an engine inspection and the late arrival of the fuel truck. Indeed, safety and the well-being of our guests is the utmost priority at SWISS. However, it is a fact that safety short comings can occur at a short notice and this is inevitable as such circumstances are considered as extraordinary. Therefore, you are not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation. However, I have checked the documents you have submitted and can inform you that SWISS will reimburse the costs you have incurred, i.e. EUR 158.40 which is equivalent to CHF 180.62.
This amount will be transferred to your account within the next 14 days.
It would be our pleasure to welcome you on board again soon and to count you amongst our satisfied guests.
*****************

While I understand that there are "extraordinary circumstances" which may excuse the airline from granting compensation, I cannot see "aircraft rotation which was a result of an engine inspection and the late arrival of the fuel truck" as falling into that category. Hence my response below:

****************
Good Afternoon <Swiss Rep>

you have written that the delay of LX 569 was delayed __"due to an aircraft rotation which was a result of an engine inspection and the late arrival of the fuel truck."__ However, these activities are considered normal activities of aircraft maintenance & and airport operation.

In Case C-549/07 (Wallentin-Hermann) the ECJ has clarified that a technical problem which comes to light during aircraft maintenance or is caused by failure to maintain an aircraft cannot be regarded as “extraordinary circumstances”. Moreover, the fact that an air carrier
has complied with the minimum rules on maintenance of an aircraft cannot in itself suffice to establish that that carrier has taken all reasonable measures to relieve that air carrier of its obligation to pay compensation. The relevant case law can be found here:

CURIA - Documents

In case C-394/14 the CJEU issued further clarification - noting that only those activities external to the normal services of an airport, such as an act of terrorism or sabotage, could be considered as extraordinary circumstances. The relevant case law can be found here:

CURIA - List of results

Therefore there can be no exemption from the obligation of compensation in my case. Again I request just compensation in line with EU261/2004 for delay and care, which is this case is our delay in the amount of €500 (€250 for each passenger) plus the costs of care (€159.38/CHF180.62) for our overnight accommodation. If you are unwilling to accommodate this request I will find it necessary to pursue further legal remedies.

thank you for your attention and I look forward to a timely response.

****************

So - whaddya think? Is "an aircraft rotation which was a result of an engine inspection and the late arrival of the fuel truck." extraordinary? Sadly, in my experience, it seems all too ordinary these days!

William

Often1

Presuming that "technical" refers to a "technical fault" or mechanical problem, you are clearly due delay / cancellation compensation based on the reroute you voluntarily declined. However, the carrier's duty of care under EC 261/2004 ended at the time of the proposed reroute. Whether EUR 18 is reasonable depends largely on the time of day, local circumstances and whether you had lounge access. There is certainly no entitlement to a hotel voucher (or reimbursement) as the carrier had a reroute which did not require one. Imagine that you wanted to fly a week later. Would you expect the carrier to feed and house you for a week.

It is interesting that your travel insurance picked up the hotel room. Likely the result of not doing its own due diligence.

Nick Art

Often1

Arguing legal minutiae with low-level customer service people is not a good use of your time. They have not read the opinion, likely have never heard of the CJEU, and simply know that in certain circumstances, they hit enter and money is transferred or they send cut & paste pre-approved responses.

Your issue is that EC 261/2004 as it has been interpreted by the CJEU only applies to your case because the flight departed from the EU. LX is not an EU carrier and Switzerland is not in the EU. Switzerland has adopted EU, but the CJEU and other dictates of the EU are not Swiss law. The law you cite is a perfect example of a precedential decision which a Swiss court may well view differently.

Thus, you have two choices:

1. Initiate an action in France.
2. Turn this over to a claims agency which will evaluate and if it believes that it will win, will take your claim in return for 25-33% of the loot.

William13

Thanks Often1 & Nick Art,

just to make it clear. Swiss put us on a flight the next day - we didn't 'voluntarily decline' but accepted their suggestion of taking the flight the next morning. I had exactly the same thing happen three months previously: BCN-ZRH-TXL - here they were again late from BCN to ZRH, so moved us to a later TXL bound flight, which was then cancelled at the last minute and we were put on a flight the next morning. They paid compensation and accommodation for that one without delay. Here they seem to have decided that the delay of LX569 was due to "extraordinary circumstances". Given that this has happened to me three times in the past year with Swiss connections through ZRH i beg to differ...

That being said - Switzerland not being in the EU is a wrinkle I hadn't foreseen. But both flights began or ended in the EU so we'll see. I agree that the customer service representative hasn't much say in the matter but am hoping my response will pop it up to a manager who would have the sense to pay to make the problem go away. It only took ten minutes to google up the extraordinary circumstances decisions, cut, paste, and edit to satisfaction. And indeed I did this in hopes of avoiding submitting this to an agency and thereby saving that 25-33% "convenience fee".

If it comes to that - does anyone have any agency they prefer over others?

thanks in advance,
William

Often1

EC 261/2004 as it exists under EU law applies because the departure is from the EU. Arrival is irrelevant and you should not rely on that. You are due a duty of care regardless of the reason for the cancellation / delay and LX has acknowledged and paid that.

The sole guidance here is that you may either file a claim under EC 261/2004 in France for the NCE departure or slog out in the Swiss courts whether the delay was an "extraordinary circumstance" under that nation's understanding of the term.

LX and the Swiss courts are well aware of the EU precedents, so none of this is a surprise. If they were inclined to accede to the EU's will, they would have. Long ago.

William13

Thanks Often1,

I expect you are correct. I will update when i have their response (if they send one).

cheers,
William

mmff

Please do, I'm curious about the time they take to answer your claim and pay what you're due.

cedmarb

Hi MMff,

I have given it a try - by email with quick explanations. A couple of days after i received an eMail explaining that none of the flights were falling within some kind of possible compensation.
Still, they have credited 80 000 miles to my account (no idea of how much this is worth in E) - and a nice apologize eMail.

I am not sure if this was due to the fact that i'm HON.

Safe flying to all.

SK AAR

Normally, 6-8 weeks for a response from LH. If a payment is accepted it will made fairly quickly (1-2 weeks).

passioninlife77

My Austrian Airlines flight on October 18 from KRK to VIE was canceled due to mechanical troubles, and I was routed from KRK to MUC, which resulted in an 8-hour delay at the KRK airport. The full itinerary was KRK to VIE to SKG, which ended up becoming KRK to MUC to SKG, with a long delay. I was told by the gate agent that I can file for compensation, but the Austrian Airlines webpage makes it very difficult to file an online claim. I finally found a section where you can file your complaint, and I received what looks like an automated message saying something along the lines of "we are receiving many emails, we will get back to you soon". It has been two weeks and no response. Has anyone successfully filed a compensation claim with Austrian and received any money? I find it very shady that the website makes it very difficult to find the pertinent information to file a claim. Thanks for any advice.