Am I entitled to compensation? [merged]
Nov 4, 2015, 7:21 pm
#136
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I don't think that the delay/cancellation provisions of EC 261/2004 are as clearcut as you believe on these facts.
Presuming that the hydraulics delay was not particularly long, at least not long enough to trigger compensation, and further presuming that had the flight departed, that it would have arrived at SIN delayed by roughly the same amount of time as the departure delay, the overnight cancellation was the result of a government rule. In fact LH applied for an exception and was expressly denied.
LH will likely take the position that the delay which would give rise to compensation was occasioned by law and that is expressly outside LH's control.
I don't think it's clearcut, so she ought to seek compensation and press LH. But, LH may well not roll over quite so easily especially when it sought permission.
Presuming that the hydraulics delay was not particularly long, at least not long enough to trigger compensation, and further presuming that had the flight departed, that it would have arrived at SIN delayed by roughly the same amount of time as the departure delay, the overnight cancellation was the result of a government rule. In fact LH applied for an exception and was expressly denied.
LH will likely take the position that the delay which would give rise to compensation was occasioned by law and that is expressly outside LH's control.
I don't think it's clearcut, so she ought to seek compensation and press LH. But, LH may well not roll over quite so easily especially when it sought permission.
Nov 4, 2015, 8:06 pm
#137
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I don't think that the delay/cancellation provisions of EC 261/2004 are as clearcut as you believe on these facts.
Presuming that the hydraulics delay was not particularly long, at least not long enough to trigger compensation, and further presuming that had the flight departed, that it would have arrived at SIN delayed by roughly the same amount of time as the departure delay, the overnight cancellation was the result of a government rule. In fact LH applied for an exception and was expressly denied.
LH will likely take the position that the delay which would give rise to compensation was occasioned by law and that is expressly outside LH's control.
I don't think it's clearcut, so she ought to seek compensation and press LH. But, LH may well not roll over quite so easily especially when it sought permission.
Presuming that the hydraulics delay was not particularly long, at least not long enough to trigger compensation, and further presuming that had the flight departed, that it would have arrived at SIN delayed by roughly the same amount of time as the departure delay, the overnight cancellation was the result of a government rule. In fact LH applied for an exception and was expressly denied.
LH will likely take the position that the delay which would give rise to compensation was occasioned by law and that is expressly outside LH's control.
I don't think it's clearcut, so she ought to seek compensation and press LH. But, LH may well not roll over quite so easily especially when it sought permission.
There is nothing extraordinary whatsoever in an airport closing at its normal closure time. It is as predictable as clockwork. So, for there to be an extraordinary circumstance here, the event that prevented the airline to depart before the airport closure time must itself have been an extraordinary circumstance. The event here was an ordinary technical incident, and we know that these are not extraordinary circumstances within the meaning of Reg 261/2004 and, therefore, compensation is due.
Nov 5, 2015, 1:22 am
#138
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Very very clear cut! Reason for the delay is a MX - end of story!
ANY MX or other delay will trigger EU261 if you arrive at your FINAL destination >3 hours late!
Don't always get hung up on the extraordinary circumstances - these are very very very hard to proof in court and trying to do so fails in 99,9%!
They are just used as an excuse all the time by the airlines....
ANY MX or other delay will trigger EU261 if you arrive at your FINAL destination >3 hours late!
Don't always get hung up on the extraordinary circumstances - these are very very very hard to proof in court and trying to do so fails in 99,9%!
They are just used as an excuse all the time by the airlines....
Last edited by Germanfflyer; Nov 5, 2015 at 3:00 am
Nov 5, 2015, 5:38 am
#140
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*: and still less any delay
Nov 5, 2015, 11:11 am
#141
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Well, not quite ANY MX.* Those that qualify as "extraordinary" (eg: grounding and recall by Airbus or Boeing of all planes of a certain type following discovery of an hitherto unexpected fault with the plane) will not trigger compensation. But these are highly exceptional.
*: and still less any delay
*: and still less any delay
Nov 5, 2015, 11:25 am
#142
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I don't think that the delay/cancellation provisions of EC 261/2004 are as clearcut as you believe on these facts.
Presuming that the hydraulics delay was not particularly long, at least not long enough to trigger compensation, and further presuming that had the flight departed, that it would have arrived at SIN delayed by roughly the same amount of time as the departure delay, the overnight cancellation was the result of a government rule. In fact LH applied for an exception and was expressly denied.
LH will likely take the position that the delay which would give rise to compensation was occasioned by law and that is expressly outside LH's control.
I don't think it's clearcut, so she ought to seek compensation and press LH. But, LH may well not roll over quite so easily especially when it sought permission.
Presuming that the hydraulics delay was not particularly long, at least not long enough to trigger compensation, and further presuming that had the flight departed, that it would have arrived at SIN delayed by roughly the same amount of time as the departure delay, the overnight cancellation was the result of a government rule. In fact LH applied for an exception and was expressly denied.
LH will likely take the position that the delay which would give rise to compensation was occasioned by law and that is expressly outside LH's control.
I don't think it's clearcut, so she ought to seek compensation and press LH. But, LH may well not roll over quite so easily especially when it sought permission.
They will not pay any money without a lawyer or the pax taking them to court based on comparable FM incidents.
Nov 6, 2015, 12:39 pm
#144
Join Date: Sep 2009
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The Independent Flight Attendant’s Organization (UFO) has announced strike action for all Lufthansa flights from/ to Frankfurt and Dusseldorf on Friday, 6.11.2015 between 14.00 and 23.00 and Saturday, 7.11.2015 between 6.00 and 23.00 for all flights from/to Dusseldorf and for all flights operated with A319, A320, A321 and B737 from/to Frankfurt.
My flight from FRA to VNO for November, 07 was cancelled. My option is to rebook for the same flight on November, 08.
Am I entitled to compensation if I will rebook my flight?
My flight from FRA to VNO for November, 07 was cancelled. My option is to rebook for the same flight on November, 08.
Am I entitled to compensation if I will rebook my flight?
Nov 6, 2015, 2:08 pm
#146
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The Independent Flight Attendant’s Organization (UFO) has announced strike action for all Lufthansa flights from/ to Frankfurt and Dusseldorf on Friday, 6.11.2015 between 14.00 and 23.00 and Saturday, 7.11.2015 between 6.00 and 23.00 for all flights from/to Dusseldorf and for all flights operated with A319, A320, A321 and B737 from/to Frankfurt.
My flight from FRA to VNO for November, 07 was cancelled. My option is to rebook for the same flight on November, 08.
Am I entitled to compensation if I will rebook my flight?
My flight from FRA to VNO for November, 07 was cancelled. My option is to rebook for the same flight on November, 08.
Am I entitled to compensation if I will rebook my flight?
Nov 7, 2015, 1:45 am
#147
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Nov 8, 2015, 7:54 am
#148
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The best option is to commission one of the non-win no-pay flight compensation agencies based in the UK to take over the claim. In the UK, in company strikes are not considered as extraordinary circumstances since they could have been prevented by better management. I was rebooked by LH yesterday on a flight to TXL via MUC instead of FRA and have been informed that there is a 'high' chance of receiving €400 (the flight arrived 3 hours after originally scheduled). Do not use a claim service based in Germany or the claim will fail!
Nov 8, 2015, 10:50 am
#149
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we have a terrible piece of legaslation, which is probably the reason why we have all kinds of decisions from various judges in multiple countries.
Based on the highly confusing legal situation, I do not blame anyone, not even Urifly or Tuifly, for all the nonsense posted since 2004 about 261.
I fully understand the approach of Lufthansa, which I discussed with at least a dozen people within LH and LH Law over the last years, so the situation is very very clear.
1. Before you travel, buy insurance
2. In case you feel you are entitled to compensation, hire a lawyer
3. In case you are a pro (only amateurs play the 261 card) think about other laws regulating compensation in the aviation industry.
4. Wait for a judge to send you or your lawyer the final decision
5. Contact the airline, a real pro prefers miles vs. cash
Nov 8, 2015, 11:27 am
#150
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HTB.