Lufthansa to 'add more seats to its Airbus fleet'

Old Dec 3, 13, 6:18 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: M&M FTL; BAEC Bronze
Posts: 1,043
Lufthansa to 'add more seats to its Airbus fleet'

According to an article in http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...s-airbus-fleet

...
In order to squeeze yet more revenue out of every flight, Lufthansa is on the verge of removing the rear galleys from its short-haul Airbus A319, A320 and A321 fleet, Der Spiegel has reported.

The freed-up space would then be used to add an additional two rows of seating which would enable an Airbus to carry up to 12 additional passengers.

It also means that the rear toilets will be moved further back. But it is unclear whereabouts on the plane the galleys will be repositioned.
...
Click on the link for the whole article.
dj_jay_smith is offline  
Old Dec 3, 13, 6:31 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: LH FT, IB
Posts: 77
I'm questioning myself if this is the right path to follow...
Furnle is offline  
Old Dec 3, 13, 6:42 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: Turkish Airlines Miles&Smiles Elite Plus, SAS EuroBonus Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,233
Some further enhancements to the NEK product coming up? Sure, if they keep offering their €99 fares I won't complain.
LH4116 is offline  
Old Dec 3, 13, 6:47 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 253
There must be a way to explain how this is coherent with management's pursuit of becoming a 5* airline in all categories. There must.
sw1x is offline  
Old Dec 3, 13, 7:41 am
  #5  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 39,881
This story got picked up by the media last week... They are looking at line fit options for the new A32S coming in the next year and the lavatory in the tail is attractive. Remember half of the A32S fleet does short hops inside Europe with no warm/hot catering to speak of. If you look at comparable A32S fleet operated by the competition you will see that there is nearly no galley upfront.
oliver2002 is offline  
Old Dec 3, 13, 9:50 am
  #6  
gum
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
This story got picked up by the media last week... They are looking at line fit options for the new A32S coming in the next year and the lavatory in the tail is attractive. Remember half of the A32S fleet does short hops inside Europe with no warm/hot catering to speak of. If you look at comparable A32S fleet operated by the competition you will see that there is nearly no galley upfront.
"All mouth, but no trousers" would be the corresponding expression for this path. Lufthansa has seen that the cost reduction trend leads to an upset and increasingly migrating customer base.

They increase the velocity of SCORE although everyone knows this is leading to nowhere.

The right path would be to increase the quality and differentiate from the Low Cost carriers.

I am not accepting the view that e.g. for a long weekend in a Euopean city the air fare should be the deciding factor.

In other words: For the total cost of this weekend (TCW) it is completely irrelevant if you pay 99 Euro r/t or 139 Euro r/t. Add the overnight accommodation, some experiences/visits and some restaurants and then the air fare is only a fraction of TCW.

A slashing of the 99 Euro fares and a reintroduction of "There is no better way to fly" is mandatory.

Rant over.

Thank you for reading. I am feeling better now.

Last edited by gum; Dec 3, 13 at 10:17 am
gum is offline  
Old Dec 3, 13, 10:37 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,161
Originally Posted by sw1x View Post
There must be a way to explain how this is coherent with management's pursuit of becoming a 5* airline in all categories. There must.
If you come up with a rational explanation it would be great to hear.
TRAVELSIG is offline  
Old Dec 4, 13, 7:14 am
  #8  
ffI
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2MM, DL DM, UA PP <=> HH DM/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P/ CC G, FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 3,886
Originally Posted by gum View Post
I am not accepting the view that e.g. for a long weekend in a Euopean city the air fare should be the deciding factor.
The public feels the opposite. They look at 99 and not 139 as the factor in deciding whether to go.
ffI is offline  
Old Dec 4, 13, 7:37 am
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Platinum: KL Gold: A3 Rust: BA
Posts: 25,367
Originally Posted by gum View Post

I am not accepting the view that e.g. for a long weekend in a Euopean city the air fare should be the deciding factor.

In other words: For the total cost of this weekend (TCW) it is completely irrelevant if you pay 99 Euro r/t or 139 Euro r/t. Add the overnight accommodation, some experiences/visits and some restaurants and then the air fare is only a fraction of TCW.
An unusual viewpoint.

Personally, I'd view any savings made on the air fare as allowing for better/more experiences/meals/accomodation while actually on the trip.

When you are sitting on a plane for only a couple of hours going to somewhere in Europe, I really see no gain in paying more than you have to, unless there is a compelling reason (timing of flights, direct flight rather than transfer, etc). So to say that paying €40 "extra" per person for flights is meaningless in the context of the entire weekend trip is not a viewpoint that many would agree with, I think. Most people will have a budget and flying is one of the things that is easiest to do cheaply.

Otherwise, wouldn't we all be flying business class around Europe, and then staying in youth hostel dormitories and eating cornflakes for every meal while on our weekend break???
irishguy28 is online now  
Old Dec 4, 13, 7:41 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,351
Originally Posted by gum View Post
I am not accepting the view that e.g. for a long weekend in a Euopean city the air fare should be the deciding factor.

In other words: For the total cost of this weekend (TCW) it is completely irrelevant if you pay 99 Euro r/t or 139 Euro r/t. Add the overnight accommodation, some experiences/visits and some restaurants and then the air fare is only a fraction of TCW.

A slashing of the 99 Euro fares and a reintroduction of "There is no better way to fly" is mandatory.

Rant over.

Thank you for reading. I am feeling better now.
You can choose to believe whatever you want, but I think the enormous growth of the LCCs at the expense of the likes of Lufthansa clearly prove that down in the real world, the price of air fares certainly does matter to ordinary people...
callum9999 is offline  
Old Dec 4, 13, 7:58 am
  #11  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 39,881
I recall Hubert Frach mentioning that people are ready to pay 40GBP to enter Madame Tussauds and stay at a 150+GBP/night hotel in London, but cringe at the thought of paying more for the flight to get there. If easyjet is cheaper, they don't mind LTN etc.

I'm currently looking to buy a rt to FAO for May29-Jun1 and seriously considering to fly back on X3 for aprox 75/less per head. Never mind that I have to get up early to stand in line with the unwashed masses to get a BP on a charter flight etc
oliver2002 is offline  
Old Dec 4, 13, 8:19 am
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,161
Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
I recall Hubert Frach mentioning that people are ready to pay 40GBP to enter Madame Tussauds and stay at a 150+GBP/night hotel in London, but cringe at the thought of paying more for the flight to get there. If easyjet is cheaper, they don't mind LTN etc.

I'm currently looking to buy a rt to FAO for May29-Jun1 and seriously considering to fly back on X3 for aprox 75/less per head. Never mind that I have to get up early to stand in line with the unwashed masses to get a BP on a charter flight etc
Certainly there is some price flexibility with many customers. 40 EUR won't be enough per person to move me but 500 EUR will. The LCC entered markets that were previously very expensive to fly within and offered prices often at a discount of up to 90% which changed completely the situation and the possibility of flying around Europe for the weekend.

I clearly recall when a roundtrip economy ticket to London used to cost well over 500 GBP ex-VCE and now it is not uncommon to see the LCC advertising for 5 EUR each way (10 EUR roundtrip) and sometimes even less.

Unwashed masses can be found everywhere- the last time I needed to fly to DUS for a meeting however there was a package rate sold through a site affiliated with Air Berlin where the Hotel (4* very good quality close to where I was going) and the Air Fare together were less than half the economy air fare of the alternative. And this was during a major trade fair.
TRAVELSIG is offline  
Old Dec 4, 13, 8:44 am
  #13  
gum
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
Originally Posted by ffI View Post
The public feels the opposite. They look at 99 and not 139 as the factor in deciding whether to go.
@ ffi, irishguy28, callum999, oliver2002, TRAVELSIG

Thanks for your amendments made and taking me back to the real world of customer behaviour. Always thought of the customers as human beings and behaving like rational utility maximizers.

And for me a non-squeezed flight was/is a valuable asset. I can't put an exact price tag on that. But I *feel* that 99/109 Euro is too low for a travel experience with an adequate customer journey.

There seems to be an enormous backlog in communicating the value of air travel.......

So thanks again for reading and commenting.
gum is offline  
Old Dec 4, 13, 9:14 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,351
Originally Posted by gum View Post
@ ffi, irishguy28, callum999, oliver2002, TRAVELSIG

Thanks for your amendments made and taking me back to the real world of customer behaviour. Always thought of the customers as human beings and behaving like rational utility maximizers.

And for me a non-squeezed flight was/is a valuable asset. I can't put an exact price tag on that. But I *feel* that 99/109 Euro is too low for a travel experience with an adequate customer journey.

There seems to be an enormous backlog in communicating the value of air travel.......

So thanks again for reading and commenting.
You seem like a rather arrogant person...

My, and millions of others, decision to place a large emphasis on flying cheaply is perfectly rational thank you very much...

Just because you can throw around extra money, doesn't mean everyone can. While the difference between 99 and 139 is "only 40" to you, to me out means that for every 2.5 flights I take at the higher rate, that's 1 flight thrown down the drain. Nor do I particularly care how comfortable it is - the time in the air is a miniscule proportion of the holiday, and I don't find even the worst LCCs any less comfortable than your average bus anyway.
callum9999 is offline  
Old Dec 4, 13, 9:53 am
  #15  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: M&M FTL; BAEC Bronze
Posts: 1,043
Originally Posted by callum9999 View Post
You seem like a rather arrogant person...

My, and millions of others, decision to place a large emphasis on flying cheaply is perfectly rational thank you very much...

Just because you can throw around extra money, doesn't mean everyone can. While the difference between 99 and 139 is "only 40" to you, to me out means that for every 2.5 flights I take at the higher rate, that's 1 flight thrown down the drain. Nor do I particularly care how comfortable it is - the time in the air is a miniscule proportion of the holiday, and I don't find even the worst LCCs any less comfortable than your average bus anyway.

I agree, you would not purchase a TV for 40 euros more that a store down the road and lets face it for most journeys in europe the flight is so short that it doesn't matter if it is a LCC or not, the service of the mainline carriers are being eroded so that they do not differentiate themselves anyway so why pay more? Because you get 125 M&M miles, thats a hell of a lot of flights needed for a european reward ticket! And 40 euros for 4 people 3-4 times a year quickly adds up.

I always weigh up cost vs. convenience. With FRA being my home airport these days then LCC's are not an option for 99% of routes, but if they are then I will take a look (except Ryanair!). Yes I have a preference for LH, but my status is not renewed based on the 99 Euro weekend trip I take but the longhaul business flights.

My company policy for travel is cheapest option, hence 2 of my last 3 longhaul business flights have been with airlines other than LH because the price difference was between 2,000 and 3,000 euros per trip! So LH prices push me away from them, and the quality of the other airlines will keep me going back to them.


Coming back to the point of the original post, actually I have no issue with them removing the galleys and if they can get more seats in and keep prices down then I am all for it. Nothing against them making money and as most of the aircraft are used on 1-2 hour hops then this is OK in my eyes. My concern is for the cabin crew, they still need to be able to perform their job and we still expect a lot from them, so as long as they can do that and safety is not compromised on the aircraft then its fine with me.
dj_jay_smith is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: