SweFlyer

Hoping for some feedback how to handle a flight delay with Lufthansa. Lufthansa claims this is weather related but in my opinion it's due to slow turnaround at ARN after the incoming flight diverted.

Itinerary:
25 Dec GOT - FRA (Operated by Lufthansa)
25 Dec FRA - YYZ (Operated by Air Canada)
25 Dec YYZ - YQB (Operated by Air Canada)

Situation:
Incoming flight from FRA to GOT LH810 aborts landing due to gusty and diverts to ARN to be refueled. LH810 lands at ARN at 11:53 and departure time for LH811 from GOT is updated from 12:05 to 14:20 (still enough time to make my connecting flight in FRA at 17:10). Departure time for LH811 gets delayed to 15:10 and eventually 15:30.

We eventually depart at 16:19 and I miss my connection to YYZ and end up getting back to YQB on Dec 26th about 20 hours later than originally scheduled.

Other planes are able to land at GOT before and after the diversion of LH810 including an incoming Lufthansa flight from MUC.

Is Lufthansa right in denying the claim due to weather or do I have a leg to stand on regarding the plane being at ARN to refuel for 2 hours 20 min?

Carpacchio

You will probably face an uphill battle, since in the very moment of the landing, gusty winds might have prohibited it. So what other planes did later or before doesn't really matter.
In my opinion, LH 810 would have tried another landing approach instead of doing all the hassle with the diversion to ARN - but maybe air traffic control directed them to do (and gave them then the late slot out of ARN).

SweFlyer

Yeah I agree with you regarding the uphill battle. In my reply to LH I argued that a new departure time of 14:20 was sent out after the plane had landed at ARN. If the departure time of 14:20 had not been pushed back further I would have made my connection in FRA. The additional delays announced took place while the plane was at ARN for refueling. 2h 20min on the ground at ARN is longer than the normal turnaround time when offloading and loading a plane which was another one of my arguments. We'll see what they say but not very hopeful.

chris63

ATC need to find another slot to FRA, the skies are full from an ATC perspective, it is not just down to the turnaround time at ARN, which Staff wise could also be at capacity, the weather issue made this extraordinary

SK AAR

You will get nowhere with arguing that an diversion to ARN took too long in your opinion. As stated above there can be several reasons why the refueling stop took long that one would initially expect. Move on!

Deltahater

I would file a complaint with the LBA.
https://www.lba.de/DE/Home/home_node.html

Request your data from the LH data protection officer:

[email protected]

That will include true data on why the flight was impacted

File a complaint with CTA

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/publicatio...ations-a-guide

LH is well known for denying valid EU261 claims as a matter of policy hoping to exhaust the passenger.

I happened to be at the Grand Hyatt in Berlin last week and group of people met there and discussed exactly how LH manages EU261 claims and what it takes to prevail. LH has become a really ...... airline in the last 10 years or so. And don't forget their anti-semitism as displayed back in May 2022. https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antis...article-723682

LH is banking on you quitting.

supine

LH often denies legitimate claims but this specific case would not be one I would pursue further.

Weather conditions are changing constantly and what affected your inbound aircraft might not have affected flights before and/or after.

Its specific fuel state combined with the weather observations and forecast available at the time would have led to the decision to divert.

While the diverting aircraft might have priority to get on the ground at their alternative airfield, an available slot to get back in the air might not be easy to come by, nor a new landing slot at the original airfield.

And finally it's missed the slot for your flight so it needs to take what can be made available.

demue

As other have said, I'm always up for a challenge to LH if I feel my claim has "legs to stand on" and in this case the argument is more than thin IMHO as well, as supine has laid out already in the prior post.

I would not waste my time and energy here as long as proper duty of care was provided. If OP has travel insurance, get confirmation from LH and claim there. YMMV.

mnhusker

This may be the crux of your EU261 claim. Did LH810 carry enough fuel to carry out a missed approach and then try again? If not then this would in my opinion by a LH operational issue that led to significant delay and thus is a viable EU261 claim.

It is unlikely ATC told them to divert unless LH 810 told ATC that they were fuel critical and could not stay in the holding pattern.

Even so, the likelihood of finding out this information and proving it to get EU261 funds is low, compared to the British process where you can go to CEDR or other adjudicating authorities to let them sort out the data with some chance of you being judged correct.

All the best.

cvision

Like others had said, I would personally not pursue this further on basis of the GOT-FRA flight alone. And for anything further you'd better drop it as it would simply muddy the claim.
Several questions:
1. Did LH provide acccommodation / reimburse meals & beverages for the overnight stay?

2. What rerouting did LH offer on LH group, AC, or SK? Was the route you eventually took after arriving at FRA the fastest possible in your class of service?

If the flights you eventually took were the fastest possible way to get to your destination (in your class of service) then you are better to move on from this claim. If there were other options that would have arrived considerably earlier, you could push them on the fact that they did not use a reasonable effort to reduce the delay.
There may have been the morning flight to Montreal available which would have gotten you into YQB around 1pm (better than 6pm, or 10pm or the likes). If there was space on it and they refused you, that could be an angle. But from a very quick look, it doesn't seem like there would have been any reasonable options to get to Canada (not even to YQB) same day.

SweFlyer

To follow up on this. Lufthansa did initially deny my claim as I expected but I was able to overturn it and will be receiving 1000 CAD for the delay they caused me.

Lufthansa claimed weather and safety (the diversion) was the reason behind denying compensation. I replied to them with a few arguments against their ruling:

1. LH sent out a departure time of 14:20 from GOT after the plane had landed at ARN. If we had departed at 14:20 from GOT I would have had more than enough time to make my connection in FRA. The 14:20 departure time eventually got delayed while the plane was at ARN to be refueled.
2. Other planes including a LH flight from Munich successfully landed at GOT when LH810 decided to divert after one failed landing attempt
3. It took 2.5 hours for LH810 to be refuled at ARN before departing to GOT which is much longer than it takes to turn a normal flight around including offloading and loading PAX

Yesterday evening I received an email from LH where they apologized for the miscommunication and denying my first claim.

To answer a few questions in this thread.

1. Lufthansa provided me with accommodation in Frankfurt. Have to give them credit for how quick and easy that process was. They sent me an email while still on the ground at GOT allowing me to select my hotel.
2. Air Canada had automatically rebooked me on the fastest route to YQB which was the following day (FRA - YUL - YQB)
3. Researched flights while in GOT and there was no way for me to get to YQB on the 25th

Deltahater

Which department agreed to pay you in the end? LH (customer relations) told us to seek mediation and buzz off.

chris63

Very good result for you

I have to say i am astonished….

Van_Looy

How did you end up with 1000 CAD? EU261 + 15% delay interest?

Astonishing indeed. I'd be worried it is a phishing attempt. LH paying out in this case is almost as credible as inheriting from a wealthy Nigerian prince.

demue

+1. I'm still in shock .