Flyertalk/Vielfliegertreff and Lufthansa Dialog 2013 event

Old Nov 18, 2013, 3:48 am
  #256  
 
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Originally Posted by NA-Flyer


Any idea of any changes (as per our feelings) this guy is talking about
As oliver pointed out already they did apparently listen to criticism with regards to certain perks (like Fast Lane Access for Senators regardless of booking class) not being available in the 4U concept.

If one compares the status overview on 4U's homepage, the link to which I posted earlier, with their initial presentation quite a few changes will be evident.

As I repeatedly criticised them for discriminating between their customers barely on their customers' choice of destination under the 4U/LH concept, I am happy to give them credit now that they have reversed some of their original decisions.
http://www.germanwings.com/en/index.shtml
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 4:26 pm
  #257  
 
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I wonder if we ever get to hear anything similar from LH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhA5w4zB4I8
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 10:58 pm
  #258  
 
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Especially liked the " customers as the core" , instead of SCORE .
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 11:12 pm
  #259  
 
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What I find it funny is that LH always attribute any negative enhancement to customers wishes, demands and suggestions as if they are liseneing to us in the first place.

I starting to think that Spohr and his team are deaf
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 3:12 am
  #260  
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Originally Posted by NA-Flyer
What I find it funny is that LH always attribute any negative enhancement to customers wishes, demands and suggestions as if they are liseneing to us in the first place.

I starting to think that Spohr and his team are deaf
I don't get that feeling at all- I do get the feeling that the input is used- perhaps not the way we wanted to be however it is used. At the event there were several people capturing information and there were also staff there because they wanted to hear what we had to say and what management and to say.

At the end of the day- it is their company to run and yet it is also our money to spend.

I think there are a combination of several factors which make this business far more complicated than it ought to be however that is the way it is.

The reduction of the frequent flyer program I cannot see at all how it will help the company unless they also change also corporate structure.

The Dialog was certainly useful and I can say did not leave any doubts in my mind about what the company is doing and how they will do it.
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 9:34 am
  #261  
 
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Originally Posted by TRAVELSIG
At the end of the day- it is their company to run and yet it is also our money to spend...

...The Dialog was certainly useful and I can say did not leave any doubts in my mind about what the company is doing and how they will do it.
Thanks and well said. Regardless of whether I like the decisions and strategic direction LH chooses to take, or whether they intend to react to my input or not, at least knowing what they plan to do has value to me.

LH has made it clear that their goal is to maximize revenue on TODAY's transaction (i.e., they are shifting to a transactional model).

In the future the individual customer relationship is going to be less important (not irrelevant, but certainly less important) than the ability to offer a competitive product at the point of sale, in a transparent, information-rich environment, where instant comparison of all the alternatives is possible.

In concept, it is not so stupid a strategy.

I am not thrilled about the implementation, and I believe LH is going to have a problem providing a decent value proposition that allows them to make money on the path they are currently on, but that is not my problem. The LH executives get paid to do that.

My problem is to find the best air travel alternative that meets my needs in terms of price and quality of service. The information exchange during The Dialog made solving my problem a bit easier.
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 10:46 am
  #262  
 
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Originally Posted by N1003U

LH has made it clear that their goal is to maximize revenue on TODAY's transaction (i.e., they are shifting to a transactional model).

In the future the individual customer relationship is going to be less important (not irrelevant, but certainly less important) than the ability to offer a competitive product at the point of sale, in a transparent, information-rich environment, where instant comparison of all the alternatives is possible.

In concept, it is not so stupid a strategy.
Maybe this is the only way to survive, when you're competing with LCC and funded carriers from the middle east with low-cost workforce, whereas German labour is not the cheapest...

The majority of the people travelling today do not care about lounges, IFE, seat-pitch etc. They just want to get to their destination for their holiday or whatever...
Unfortunately the result of this will affect people such as myself, that HAS to travel because of work...
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 11:22 am
  #263  
 
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Originally Posted by NA-Flyer
What I find it funny is that LH always attribute any negative enhancement to customers wishes, demands and suggestions as if they are liseneing to us in the first place.

I starting to think that Spohr and his team are deaf
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after having read through this thread, one can only conclude that Lufthansa is a company that despises their customers. They seem to have the mindset that "our customers are out to try and screw us". Surely it's arguable whether the typical FT:er can be seen as a good or a bad customer, but they only make up for a tiny tiny fraction of all customers.

For an airline like Ryanair, one would might expect them to treat their customers like 2nd class citizens, but for Lufthansa. It's only sad
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 11:56 am
  #264  
 
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Hello to all,

sorry for the late reply, but I wasn't able to share my opinion with you all before.

Concerning the Lufthansa Dialogue, I want to add just some points. Feel free to contest:

LH is charging more for the tickets (average speaking); also, they want immediate revenue instead of future one. This means that they currently believe that Loyalty does not pay for them;

Most of the costs come from fuel, airport taxes and wages. They can control the last one, but not the other two;

LH wants to be the first "5 star airline" in Europe. Beside some marketing effect, to me, that means nothing, specially because it is very easy to achieve that status with Skytrax, if you know what I mean;

At the same time, LH does not need anymore to be n1 in Europe. That should bring some worries to the shareholders, because when an airline starts to shrink, you will never know when it will stop. One thing is to change some markets (going to the ones which bring more profits or which have more growth perspectives); another is to retreat, sending planes to scrap earlier than was planned, and cutting routes. Each route you cut is less feed to another route. And that is a snowball. You have less costs, but there is a point when the lost revenue is much bigger than the savings achieved. As a strategic move, this is quite dangerous, and much more significant than the changes made in Miles and More program;

Talking about strategy, that seems to be Achilles' heel of LH right now. My impression was: they have goals, they have some means to get there, but those goals and means do not compose a strategy. That's the reason why I asked about strategy and, honestly, I didn't get a proper answer from Mr. Spohr. Maybe because they are making SCORE as their strategy. Unfortunately, when I look at LH right now, it resembles more and more Air France. They are not leading: they are running after, they are chasing, but they don't even now exactly what they are chasing;

They assume they broke the loyal relationship LH had with their best costumers;

They are not so sure if they will be able to achieve their goals. To the ones that were there, you could notice that in their corporal language, in some expressions, and, after the dialogue, at least two of them considered that some measures would need to be reverted in the future. They wanted to show confidence, but, honestly, they are afraid of the path LH is taking. At least, they are insecure.


Honestly, this movie has only started. One thing, what they did was not (only) a Marketing act. They really wanted to discuss and explain. And also to understand. After all, it is a very cheap market research for them and they know it.
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 12:00 pm
  #265  
 
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Originally Posted by Furnle
Hello to all,

sorry for the late reply, but I wasn't able to share my opinion with you all before.

Concerning the Lufthansa Dialogue, I want to add just some points. Feel free to contest:

LH is charging more for the tickets (average speaking); also, they want immediate revenue instead of future one. This means that they currently believe that Loyalty does not pay for them;

Most of the costs come from fuel, airport taxes and wages. They can control the last one, but not the other two;

LH wants to be the first "5 star airline" in Europe. Beside some marketing effect, to me, that means nothing, specially because it is very easy to achieve that status with Skytrax, if you know what I mean;

At the same time, LH does not need anymore to be n1 in Europe. That should bring some worries to the shareholders, because when an airline starts to shrink, you will never know when it will stop. One thing is to change some markets (going to the ones which bring more profits or which have more growth perspectives); another is to retreat, sending planes to scrap earlier than was planned, and cutting routes. Each route you cut is less feed to another route. And that is a snowball. You have less costs, but there is a point when the lost revenue is much bigger than the savings achieved. As a strategic move, this is quite dangerous, and much more significant than the changes made in Miles and More program;

Talking about strategy, that seems to be Achilles' heel of LH right now. My impression was: they have goals, they have some means to get there, but those goals and means do not compose a strategy. That's the reason why I asked about strategy and, honestly, I didn't get a proper answer from Mr. Spohr. Maybe because they are making SCORE as their strategy. Unfortunately, when I look at LH right now, it resembles more and more Air France. They are not leading: they are running after, they are chasing, but they don't even now exactly what they are chasing;

They assume they broke the loyal relationship LH had with their best costumers;

They are not so sure if they will be able to achieve their goals. To the ones that were there, you could notice that in their corporal language, in some expressions, and, after the dialogue, at least two of them considered that some measures would need to be reverted in the future. They wanted to show confidence, but, honestly, they are afraid of the path LH is taking. At least, they are insecure.
So I gather my analysis of the body language in the photograph/s I saw was correct...

I also concur with your above points.
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 1:20 pm
  #266  
 
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Originally Posted by N1003U

In the future the individual customer relationship is going to be less important (not irrelevant, but certainly less important) than the ability to offer a competitive product at the point of sale, in a transparent, information-rich environment, where instant comparison of all the alternatives is possible.

In concept, it is not so stupid a strategy.
Well that depends , who is your competition .
And more importantly , who are you?

nonstopyou ?
5 star all classes?


Good luck!
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 2:03 pm
  #267  
 
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Originally Posted by seat 1a
Well that depends , who is your competition .
And more importantly , who are you?

nonstopyou ?
5 star all classes?


Good luck!
Indeed. More than luck is needed.

The implementation of a transactional model is problematic unless you have a competitive cost base, and you have a vey flexible, fast-moving organization that can adapt rapidly in a dynamic environment. LH has neither.
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 2:08 pm
  #268  
 
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Originally Posted by Kleffen
The majority of the people travelling today do not care about lounges, IFE, seat-pitch etc. They just want to get to their destination for their holiday or whatever...
I vehemently disagree. The need for this kind of upgraded service is exactly what's keeping LH (and other legacy airlines) afloat. If they continue down the LCC path, they'll lose, because you can't out-LCC an LCC - they're better at what they do. I see today's civil aviation industry situation as the equivalent of the dilemma between austerity and fiscal stimulus in finance. Either you retrench and try to weather the storm, or you do your utmost to optimise and improve your offering, so as to make a very clear distinction between the value of your product and the value of cheaper products. People are too clever in the 21st century to be misguided by marketing talk. True, not everyone is on FT, but people will still turn to Skytrax and TripAdvisor reviews when comparing products and prices for their travel.

I find the admitted shift to a transactional model absolutely horrendous and wouldn't be surprised if it causes LH serious damage in the long run. It's been common business knowledge for over 80 years that short-term profit orientation is a deadly sin. Maybe I'm too optimistic and the industry is so competitive that there's no other option. We'll see soon enough.
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 2:38 pm
  #269  
 
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Originally Posted by N1003U
Indeed. More than luck is needed.
Yes , a really skilled and visionary leadership .
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 4:18 pm
  #270  
 
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Originally Posted by seat 1a
Yes , a really skilled and visionary leadership .
Now you are really asking for a lot...

I agree absolutely. Realistically, I am not so hopeful...
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