Misconnect LH, bought BA ticket, refund due?
Sep 11, 2013, 3:24 am
#31
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
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FYI: The return flight Canada-Asia on LH's ticket is most probably invalid now as well, as they missed their LHR-Canada flight a day later that they were automatically protected on.
Kudos to LH for helping them out - even though that family apparently f***d it up all by themselves..
Kudos to LH for helping them out - even though that family apparently f***d it up all by themselves..
Sep 11, 2013, 3:35 am
#32
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Yep, you/they might want to contact the TA to sort out the auto cancellation of the remaining segments that should have happened when they no-showed in LHR.
Sep 11, 2013, 3:42 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,752
The only thing that doesn't add up is that they cannot have booked the BA flight after the son arrived at immigration, but more likely in anticipation of this happening.
The end result is still the same:
- $7,200 out of pocket
- return flights for the LH booking will likely be cancelled as a segment has been missed.
I would suggest writing to Lufthansa, and explaining what happened and asking that the return tickets are reinstated and the BA fare is refunded. Maybe supporting your argument is under EU regulations they should have been booked on the next available flight, but in practice this means next available own company flight and may not apply to missed connections (in the text it only applies to cancellations).
Good luck!
The end result is still the same:
- $7,200 out of pocket
- return flights for the LH booking will likely be cancelled as a segment has been missed.
I would suggest writing to Lufthansa, and explaining what happened and asking that the return tickets are reinstated and the BA fare is refunded. Maybe supporting your argument is under EU regulations they should have been booked on the next available flight, but in practice this means next available own company flight and may not apply to missed connections (in the text it only applies to cancellations).
Good luck!
Sep 11, 2013, 6:06 am
#34
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...
Nope. TA now claims to have told them about the different connecting flights, but they were taking notes when they bought the tickets and had no notes about different connections. For context: the four of them were split over three different reservations because of different return dates. There were two FRA-LHR flights leaving that same hour, and it sounds like the TA just picked the wrong one for the one kid without verifying the flight number. Also surprised the check-in agent didn't notice it since they all checked in together, but was probably only looking carefully at the BPs Asia-FRA.
Thanks all for the help!! ^
Nope. TA now claims to have told them about the different connecting flights, but they were taking notes when they bought the tickets and had no notes about different connections. For context: the four of them were split over three different reservations because of different return dates. There were two FRA-LHR flights leaving that same hour, and it sounds like the TA just picked the wrong one for the one kid without verifying the flight number. Also surprised the check-in agent didn't notice it since they all checked in together, but was probably only looking carefully at the BPs Asia-FRA.
Thanks all for the help!! ^
Last edited by tentseller; Sep 11, 2013 at 6:11 am
Sep 11, 2013, 6:14 am
#35
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,449
The only thing that doesn't add up is that they cannot have booked the BA flight after the son arrived at immigration, but more likely in anticipation of this happening.
The end result is still the same:
- $7,200 out of pocket
- return flights for the LH booking will likely be cancelled as a segment has been missed.
I would suggest writing to Lufthansa, and explaining what happened and asking that the return tickets are reinstated and the BA fare is refunded. Maybe supporting your argument is under EU regulations they should have been booked on the next available flight, but in practice this means next available own company flight and may not apply to missed connections (in the text it only applies to cancellations).
Good luck!
The end result is still the same:
- $7,200 out of pocket
- return flights for the LH booking will likely be cancelled as a segment has been missed.
I would suggest writing to Lufthansa, and explaining what happened and asking that the return tickets are reinstated and the BA fare is refunded. Maybe supporting your argument is under EU regulations they should have been booked on the next available flight, but in practice this means next available own company flight and may not apply to missed connections (in the text it only applies to cancellations).
Good luck!
Just think of it.. sure, you can go crazy in such a situation - but even the most unfamiliar traveller would think:
Hey, I missed my flight, who am I going to ask for help?
A) TA: Possibly - couldn't do much in this situation, but would most probably advise #B
B) The airline that the ticket was booked upon: Lufthansa has for sure counters in LHR
C) The airline that they were supposed to fly: Air Canada, also for sure having counters, probably be told to go to the LH counters there.
So, in any way, going to the LH counters would be the only logical explanation of even the most unfamiliar traveller would do. Certainly not rushing to the next BA counter (How did they know there was a later BA flight, anyway?) and putting 7000 quid on the table.. going to LH was the only logical thing to do, even if you went fully crazy...
edit: By the way, if they try to play hardball with EU reg, then LH will most probably tell them to get lost, and that their returns are now "gone" as well. They (at least 3 of them) did a proper no-show in FRA. If LH wanted to, they could have just left them stranded there already.. so, there goes your "EU reg"..
Sep 11, 2013, 1:37 pm
#36
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I would suggest writing to Lufthansa, and explaining what happened and asking that the return tickets are reinstated and the BA fare is refunded. Maybe supporting your argument is under EU regulations they should have been booked on the next available flight, but in practice this means next available own company flight and may not apply to missed connections (in the text it only applies to cancellations).
Good luck!
Good luck!
Question: anyone familiar with the conformance rules at LHR? NewbieRunner mentioned them a while back. If they were improperly turned away at security—and there should be a record of the time they arrived because they scan boarding passes—could they have recourse with LHR? Alternatively, is it possible AC preemptively cancelled their xLHR flight due to protection/waitlist/less-than-MCT arrival, and that's what caused the denial at security?
Sep 12, 2013, 1:01 am
#37
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Question: anyone familiar with the conformance rules at LHR? NewbieRunner mentioned them a while back. If they were improperly turned away at security—and there should be a record of the time they arrived because they scan boarding passes—could they have recourse with LHR? Alternatively, is it possible AC preemptively cancelled their xLHR flight due to protection/waitlist/less-than-MCT arrival, and that's what caused the denial at security?
This is what BA says about conformance at T5.
Check in and clear security at least 35 minutes before your flight
Important information:
Important information:
- You must pass through check-in no later than 45 minutes before your flight.
- You must have entered Security at least 35 minutes before your flight departs.
- You must be at your boarding gate at least 20 minutes before your flight departs.
- If you do not meet these times, you will not be allowed on to your flight.
Sep 12, 2013, 2:06 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Sep 12, 2013, 5:43 am
#39
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I absolutely love this auto-extension of the story
The OP said the kid was allowed by immigration to stay airside. Is that possible in Canada?
Sep 13, 2013, 2:45 am
#41
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I still love the assertive story!
The OP said the kid was allowed by immigration to stay airside. Is that possible in Canada?
Sep 13, 2013, 6:17 am
#42
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What I don't understand: why did the kid board the flight knowing that his entire family didn't show up at the gate? I would have talked to the gate agents. If they were smart, they'd check his visa status and don't let him board unless the rest of his family shows up.
HTB.
HTB.
Sep 13, 2013, 9:34 pm
#43
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Does a GA do visa checks?
Sep 14, 2013, 9:13 am
#44
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Sep 14, 2013, 9:32 am
#45
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A few items:
1. Forget about EU 261/2004 or any other contractual compensation. The family noshowed for a segment at FRA. Presumably the inbound from Asia was on-time and thus there was no LH-caused misconnect. At that point, LH could simply have cancelled the onward and told 3 of the 4 family that they were SOL and, if they wished to travel anywhere, they would need to purchase new tickets. Instead, LH reacommodated the 3 tardy family members. That is an acommodation not required by law or contract.
2. The child who made his flight xLHR apparently had a valid visa and would therefore have passed document checks at LHR. The issue is that Canada requires his sponsor, e.g. mother, to be present with him at time of admission. Extraordinarily unlikely that AC gets fined because its sole responsibility is the document check. Had the mother never shown up, the child, depending on age, would either have been: 1) treated as a refugee; 2) issued some form of temporary visa; or 3) excluded and returned (with a fight between AC and the government as to who pays).
2. Notwithstanding what one sees online, there is a distinct likelihood that LH's systems have or will eventually cancel the family members' tickets. That needs to be fixed, if it can be, with a call to LH. Clearly the family has a tendency to be a bit lacadaisical about travel logistics, so assuring that all is well is something which OP can do for his family with one of them on the line.
3. I find it weird that a person traveling on LH and connecting to AC would go to a BA ticket counter for assistance. There might be a dispute between LH and AC as to whether either or both carriers had some duty to the family, but BA simply sees them as walk-up pax and sells them a walk-up ticket.
4. While it's always possible that AC might have taken pity on the family, it's hard to ask BA to do anything for someone who missed a flight on another carrier and voluntarily purchased the BA segment. While I appreciate that there was some urgency to get to Canada because it would be disconcerting to anyone who have one family member in the air and because the mother may have known that she needed to be present, none of this is known to BA and AC had no chance to do the right thing.
1. Forget about EU 261/2004 or any other contractual compensation. The family noshowed for a segment at FRA. Presumably the inbound from Asia was on-time and thus there was no LH-caused misconnect. At that point, LH could simply have cancelled the onward and told 3 of the 4 family that they were SOL and, if they wished to travel anywhere, they would need to purchase new tickets. Instead, LH reacommodated the 3 tardy family members. That is an acommodation not required by law or contract.
2. The child who made his flight xLHR apparently had a valid visa and would therefore have passed document checks at LHR. The issue is that Canada requires his sponsor, e.g. mother, to be present with him at time of admission. Extraordinarily unlikely that AC gets fined because its sole responsibility is the document check. Had the mother never shown up, the child, depending on age, would either have been: 1) treated as a refugee; 2) issued some form of temporary visa; or 3) excluded and returned (with a fight between AC and the government as to who pays).
2. Notwithstanding what one sees online, there is a distinct likelihood that LH's systems have or will eventually cancel the family members' tickets. That needs to be fixed, if it can be, with a call to LH. Clearly the family has a tendency to be a bit lacadaisical about travel logistics, so assuring that all is well is something which OP can do for his family with one of them on the line.
3. I find it weird that a person traveling on LH and connecting to AC would go to a BA ticket counter for assistance. There might be a dispute between LH and AC as to whether either or both carriers had some duty to the family, but BA simply sees them as walk-up pax and sells them a walk-up ticket.
4. While it's always possible that AC might have taken pity on the family, it's hard to ask BA to do anything for someone who missed a flight on another carrier and voluntarily purchased the BA segment. While I appreciate that there was some urgency to get to Canada because it would be disconcerting to anyone who have one family member in the air and because the mother may have known that she needed to be present, none of this is known to BA and AC had no chance to do the right thing.