What´s your impression about the new Germanwings
Oct 29, 2013, 8:53 pm
#46
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NCL
Programs: UA 1MM/*G. DL Gold for one more year.
Posts: 5,305
Thank you for your excellent and very insightful observations, aidanc. It was for me very instructive to see the new 4U through the eyes of a long-time LH mainline customer.
In the end, was the experience worth the 40€ you "saved"?
There is a big difference between a bad cup of coffee (and Corny nut bar) that comes at no extra charge, and a bad cup of coffee that costs an extra 2,50€ at point-of-service. If you want to sell something on-board, it better be really good quality, or the result will be a disaster (the airlines in N. America found this out very early on when they started selling food on-board).
I suppose one can maybe assume with time that the bugs in the check-in process will be fixed, but one might wonder why it was not better thought-out initially. Repeat observation that on-board food/drink for sale must be top quality.
These are details I suspect were either not carefully considered or if considered were ignored/downplayed (e.g., different arrival terminal, no lounge access, difficulty integrating with the rest of the *A network, etc.).
Changes in service change customer behavior sometimes in a big way.
Furthermore, the change is not only dynamic, it is not linear.
Faced with a change anyway, customers will start to look around and check out the alternatives. Some will find they are better served elsewhere. Competitors will notice that customers are looking around, and they will respond. When LH changes their environment, the whole surrounding environment will change as well. Based on my observations to-date, LH has not well analyzed the significant variations in outcome that are possible.
Whether this all works out to the advantage or disadvantage of Lufthansa in the end, I suppose remains to be seen. However, based on this post, which was a very illustrative example, tells me the risk LH is taking with what I have taken to calling the "4U Gambit" is messing around big time with the customer relationship, and LH is "playing with fire" to a degree I am not sure they understand.
In the end, was the experience worth the 40€ you "saved"?
There is a big difference between a bad cup of coffee (and Corny nut bar) that comes at no extra charge, and a bad cup of coffee that costs an extra 2,50€ at point-of-service. If you want to sell something on-board, it better be really good quality, or the result will be a disaster (the airlines in N. America found this out very early on when they started selling food on-board).
I suppose one can maybe assume with time that the bugs in the check-in process will be fixed, but one might wonder why it was not better thought-out initially. Repeat observation that on-board food/drink for sale must be top quality.
These are details I suspect were either not carefully considered or if considered were ignored/downplayed (e.g., different arrival terminal, no lounge access, difficulty integrating with the rest of the *A network, etc.).
Changes in service change customer behavior sometimes in a big way.
Furthermore, the change is not only dynamic, it is not linear.
Faced with a change anyway, customers will start to look around and check out the alternatives. Some will find they are better served elsewhere. Competitors will notice that customers are looking around, and they will respond. When LH changes their environment, the whole surrounding environment will change as well. Based on my observations to-date, LH has not well analyzed the significant variations in outcome that are possible.
Whether this all works out to the advantage or disadvantage of Lufthansa in the end, I suppose remains to be seen. However, based on this post, which was a very illustrative example, tells me the risk LH is taking with what I have taken to calling the "4U Gambit" is messing around big time with the customer relationship, and LH is "playing with fire" to a degree I am not sure they understand.
PS: After having looked up this fare on Germanwings' English site with its droll sprinklings of German, Google has now switched to offering me adverts in German on FT!
Last edited by Passmethesickbag; Oct 29, 2013 at 9:41 pm
Oct 30, 2013, 7:39 am
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
Oct 30, 2013, 8:15 am
#50
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KEL (1 Km) or HAM (85 Km)
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 1,129
I was holding a printed out boarding pass, but still needed to do a bag drop (Swedish supplies for Christmas). Bag dropped at just about the hour mark in the queue. A couple in front of me were hand-baggage but had not checked in, and waited the hour as well. And I had my home printed boarding pass replaced with new one.
Going via CPH or some other airport is looking more attractive.
Going via CPH or some other airport is looking more attractive.
Oct 31, 2013, 2:56 am
#53
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KEL (1 Km) or HAM (85 Km)
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 1,129
Oct 31, 2013, 5:46 am
#54
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KEL (1 Km) or HAM (85 Km)
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 1,129
To follow-up after yesterday's check-in, it took a full hour to do a bag drop. One of the Menzies staff worked the queue handing out Lufthansa tags for the baggage to be dropped off at the aircraft door. Every piece of hand-baggage bigger than a purse got tagged. My rucksack goes under the seat in a Beachcraft 1900D, so it was going to fit under the seat in a CRJ-900.
So I get through security in ARN T2 at about departure T-60, having arrived at the airport at T-140. T2 is pretty small, which much fewer shops than the regular Shengen T5. There is a bar/restaurant upstairs, which you pass through getting to the Menzies lounge. The lounge is bright, airy, free Wi-Fi, and has some good snacks. Flying on 4U as SEN you need Priority Pass to get in
The incoming flight was a few minutes late, and we boarded pretty close to the departure time.
If you had checked in online and printed the boarding pass at home (or used a mobile one), you could not board. The gate staff had to re-print the BP at the gate to do the boarding, My own BP had been replaced at check-in. The same thing happened last week in DUB with the 4U flight (BP re-printing).
This is something that LH/4U will have to work out quickly, since many day trippers check in on their smart-phone.
OK, so we're on board, and all the first 10 rows are pretty busy/full, while there's a conspicuous number of rows in the middle and at the back which were empty.
Following boarding, there was some confusion if there were checked-in no shows - that seems to have taken a few minutes to resolve, and the FA counted the passengers five or six times. Likely to do with the BP re-printing.
At T+10 (and we're still at the gate), the Flight Attendant comes out of the cockpit, and asks 6 people from the first four rows to volunteer to move to the back of the plane - I had this on Monday as well. After some general moaning, 6 people moved to the back.
This is clearly related to the 4U check-in system being used to A319/A320, and not knowing about balance/weight issues on the smaller aircraft.
I felt really sorry for the EW Flight Attendants, who this week must be putting up with some real crap caused by the switch from LH to 4U.
The inflight service is something that EW are going to take time to get used to, They are using a 7" Android PDA (likely Samsung) which has the seating plan, and the fares that customers are on. The couple across from me (on a basic fare) actually bought something. I skipped the same snack pack they've been pushing on me all week. Cheese or Turkey. Although I've heard the Turkey described in English as both Ham and Salami in the interim. I'm still not sure what it is.
I know it's only the first week for EW doing HAM-ARN as 4U, but there are a few EW routes from Hamburg (AMS, OSL, ARN, MAN, GVA, MXP). Today Thursday, the 07:00 flight for every single one of these routes departed/arrived late.
I agree with some of the comments above that I would be looking at other options for HAM-ARN, all of which involve connections, either SK via CPH, or AB via TXL, or LH via FRA/MUC.
Why? The overall experience will be better. (And I'm not quibbling with the efforts of the airport/on-board staff.)
So, finally, some fun... what's missing from this picture.
So I get through security in ARN T2 at about departure T-60, having arrived at the airport at T-140. T2 is pretty small, which much fewer shops than the regular Shengen T5. There is a bar/restaurant upstairs, which you pass through getting to the Menzies lounge. The lounge is bright, airy, free Wi-Fi, and has some good snacks. Flying on 4U as SEN you need Priority Pass to get in
The incoming flight was a few minutes late, and we boarded pretty close to the departure time.
If you had checked in online and printed the boarding pass at home (or used a mobile one), you could not board. The gate staff had to re-print the BP at the gate to do the boarding, My own BP had been replaced at check-in. The same thing happened last week in DUB with the 4U flight (BP re-printing).
This is something that LH/4U will have to work out quickly, since many day trippers check in on their smart-phone.
OK, so we're on board, and all the first 10 rows are pretty busy/full, while there's a conspicuous number of rows in the middle and at the back which were empty.
Following boarding, there was some confusion if there were checked-in no shows - that seems to have taken a few minutes to resolve, and the FA counted the passengers five or six times. Likely to do with the BP re-printing.
At T+10 (and we're still at the gate), the Flight Attendant comes out of the cockpit, and asks 6 people from the first four rows to volunteer to move to the back of the plane - I had this on Monday as well. After some general moaning, 6 people moved to the back.
This is clearly related to the 4U check-in system being used to A319/A320, and not knowing about balance/weight issues on the smaller aircraft.
I felt really sorry for the EW Flight Attendants, who this week must be putting up with some real crap caused by the switch from LH to 4U.
The inflight service is something that EW are going to take time to get used to, They are using a 7" Android PDA (likely Samsung) which has the seating plan, and the fares that customers are on. The couple across from me (on a basic fare) actually bought something. I skipped the same snack pack they've been pushing on me all week. Cheese or Turkey. Although I've heard the Turkey described in English as both Ham and Salami in the interim. I'm still not sure what it is.
I know it's only the first week for EW doing HAM-ARN as 4U, but there are a few EW routes from Hamburg (AMS, OSL, ARN, MAN, GVA, MXP). Today Thursday, the 07:00 flight for every single one of these routes departed/arrived late.
I agree with some of the comments above that I would be looking at other options for HAM-ARN, all of which involve connections, either SK via CPH, or AB via TXL, or LH via FRA/MUC.
Why? The overall experience will be better. (And I'm not quibbling with the efforts of the airport/on-board staff.)
So, finally, some fun... what's missing from this picture.
Oct 31, 2013, 11:36 pm
#56
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: homeless 2.0
Programs: A3 Gold, LH FTL
Posts: 1,065
Nov 1, 2013, 2:43 am
#58
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NCL
Programs: UA 1MM/*G. DL Gold for one more year.
Posts: 5,305
Bizarre, so Germanwings on discounted fares now gives 100% with United, and Lufthansa intra-Europe on equivalent fares gives 0%. Still no Elite Qualifying Miles though. And frankly, for short flights, I actually preferred 0% miles but full Elite benefits with lounge access and free bags, on balance.
Nov 22, 2013, 2:49 am
#60
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
