ottone

How long does it take for miles from 4U to post ? I had a flight on monday and as of today miles didn't show up in my account yet (the booking class is eligible for 750 miles +exec bonus).

The flight itself was very pleasant and I agree with all the positive comments posted so far.

YuropFlyer

Miles should post within a few days. Mine arrived within 2-3 days the last times.

ottone

Thanks. I'll wait a few more days and then make a manual claim if the miles do not show up.

oliver2002

Just noted that 4U will be presenting at S+K power pricing sales event:

http://www.convent.de/new/uploads/tx...er_pricing.pdf

Jasper2009

Thanks for the laugh!

High quality? Compared to Ryanair, maybe. They also seem to have a different definition of "perfect service" than me.

4U is perfectly fine if you pay <100Euros for a return ticket, but paying LH prices and getting 4U quality (and no *G benefits)? Very little chance they´ll be able to convince me of that business proposition.

gum

At the first moment: Full agree.

But if I think again and again I just remember the election campaign for the Parliament in Germany until election day in September 2013.

And how different the advertising and the content was.

[Sorry German content but try to internationalize it!]

1.) The campaign of the contender Peer Steinbrück was moving very slow, not to say rippling like a tiny creek.

2.) On one evening there was the so called "TV Duell" with the contender Peer Steinbrück and Angela Merkel in a very lame crossfire in order to present themselves and their policies to the voters.

3.) The common view of the public was that Peer Steinbrück had made not enough attacks and didn't make much punches or direct hits.

4.) But one phrase was really great although the Merkel administration would deny it. Peer Steinbrück spoke about "leere Schachteln" (empty boxes) which the chancellor places in the window but isn't active enough.

So my question in view of such a "high-grade" conference and the presentation about Germanwings is:

Is there a fit between the concept of presenting empty boxes and the Germanwings presentation or product?

http://www.convent.de/new/uploads/tx...er_pricing.pdf

Which of the following points is the best representative for the empty box?

"Die „neue Germanwings“: Low Cost und High Quality – wie g eht das?
Fliegen ŕ la carte: Perfekter Service für jeden Anspruch
Die Differenzierung in der Economy: Von Basic zu Best
Die Umstellung in Rekordgeschwindigkeit"

My favourite is: "Perfekter Service für jeden Anspruch"

Since when is the hard and soft product of German wings perfect??

Never heard about real 2+2 seating, large pitch, extensive catering....

txl

Not to put too fine a point on it, but wouldn't it be more appropriate for LH/4U to start lecturing people on their successful strategy after it had actually proven to be successful?

kevinsac

The website still is poorly constructed. On some pages, a mish-mash of German and English. Not very intuitive.

aidanc

Grumble grumble. Need to write a longer post but I'm not impressed now that one of my key routes is 4U. Operated by Eurowings even.

aidanc

I'm going to do two posts, the first about DUB-CGN-HAM last week, where I took 4U (booked on 4U instead of LH - was €40 cheaper), and I managed to avoid the LH 05:20 DUB-FRA flight.

DUB is not likely to be a huge 4U station, so I should not have been surprised by the check-in, which had no bag drop, or a priority lane. I arrived about T-90, and it took the best part of a half hour to get to the front of the check-in queue. It's been years since I had to queue that long for check-in. My home printed boarding pass was replaced with one printed out by the Serviceair check-in agent - only the first sector, not the second.

Flight boarded pretty close to take off, and there was a messy gate change. At T-10, I suggested a gentleman in the queue that he needed to be at the DUB-FRA gate, given he was holding an LH boarding pass.

I was booked in W, and able to select seat 1F, which was nice. W seems to be a "Select" seat.



Select seats, on both sectors have NEK seats, but 3 inches more leg room.



Select booking classes get a snack-box, and a non-alcoholic drink. "Best" booking classes get an open choice of the "for purchase menu".



The snack-box is OK, better than some of the pictures Newbie Runner has taken.

In CGN, the connection was short, but I had time to get to the SEN lounge there. Was a short visit.

On the second sector, I didn't bother with the same snack-box, and nearly got charged €2.50 for my coffee. My seat mate volunteered that I'd refused the snack-box, and the coffee arrived. I'd not be too happy to pay €2.50 for it. Even in the Smart fare classes, the rows are packed 3/3, and SEN middle seat blocking does not exist.

On the A319 flights, I found the service levels nicer and softer than LH mainline - and at least I didn't have them try and hand me a Corny nut bar.

aidanc

So I also had the pleasure of HAM-ARN this morning, operated by Eurowings for 4U. I booked this one on LH 220 ticket stock, and I hate think how much I paid for the outbound seat. I'm sure I paid either full Y or B. I was still regarded as being in a Select seat. I fly this route quite often. Sometimes with a LH ticket, sometimes with SK (on LH metal).

Anyway things did not start well last night, as I tried to re-print my boarding pass at the 4U machines in HAM, it was no dice. I ended up in the "Best" queue this morning to get it reprinted. The gentleman two people ahead of me wandered away from the desk muttering darkly about some service issue.

Flight boarded OK, and while I was getting seated, I overheard one of the FAs telling a passenger that today they were just starting with the 4U concept. The captain even came on and made some comments about new paperwork.

Then about T+5, the captain came into the cabin, and asked 8 people from rows 3 to 5 to move to the back of the aircraft, mentioning a balance problem. He suggested it was related to something done at the gate.

We take off about 15 minutes later. As the service proceeds, the FAs use a 7 inch table to identify which passengers were on what fare. I avoided the same snack-box again. Someone on the other side of the cabin (CRJ-900) declined a €2.50 coffee. I'm not sure the sold anything at all.

Previously the LH operated by EW flight from HAM to ARN arrived in ARN Terminal 5, and I was pretty surprised to be dumped out in ARN Terminal 2 this morning.

It means that there is no LH lounge on departure later in the week. To be honest, the move from LH to 4U for many of these routes removes them from the *A timetable. I'm not sure if that's been talked about here much, buy I'd say the *A has lost a load of direct connections within Central Europe and domestic Germany with the 4U concept.

For the Nordic routes from HAM, I think that 4U might not be the best solution....

aidanc

So, one nice thing from 4U is the ability to check-in 72 hours in advance, than 23 with LH.

On the other hand, the check-in software is not really good with CRJ type aircraft.



Back in the "good old" LH days, I'd only be able to see from row 7 in the pre-check-in period, and from row 4 at T-23.

With 4U, I seem to be able to select any open seat in the aircraft, either as a result of being SEN or on a smart fare. This is not clear.

On the smaller regional aircraft, this being able to select any seat might lead to weight/balance problems, like what I experienced on Monday morning.

I'm not sure the customer in 1A (above) would appreciate my showing up in 1C - unless 1A is already blocked being in the C/Best part of the cabin.

Confusing...

gum

I *think* Germanwings doesn't offer the C/Best fare on the smaller aircraft. Due to the fact they wouldn't loose a third of the capacity (from 3-3 to 2-2) but the half by only allocating one C/Best fare per side.

If you make a dummy booking for this route they don't offer the best fare and also indicate clearly that there are no seats with "additional legroom" available.

EDIT: Similar on the route Dusseldorf-Bilbao. No "Best Fare" available and therefore no chance to block the middle seat.

So this may be one secret of the higher productivity of Germanwings. Not to offer any Business Class cabin on some of their aircrafts!

N1003U

Thank you for your excellent and very insightful observations, aidanc. It was for me very instructive to see the new 4U through the eyes of a long-time LH mainline customer.

In the end, was the experience worth the 40€ you "saved"?

There is a big difference between a bad cup of coffee (and Corny nut bar) that comes at no extra charge, and a bad cup of coffee that costs an extra 2,50€ at point-of-service. If you want to sell something on-board, it better be really good quality, or the result will be a disaster (the airlines in N. America found this out very early on when they started selling food on-board).

I suppose one can maybe assume with time that the bugs in the check-in process will be fixed, but one might wonder why it was not better thought-out initially. Repeat observation that on-board food/drink for sale must be top quality.

These are details I suspect were either not carefully considered or if considered were ignored/downplayed (e.g., different arrival terminal, no lounge access, difficulty integrating with the rest of the *A network, etc.).

Changes in service change customer behavior sometimes in a big way.
Furthermore, the change is not only dynamic, it is not linear.
Faced with a change anyway, customers will start to look around and check out the alternatives. Some will find they are better served elsewhere. Competitors will notice that customers are looking around, and they will respond. When LH changes their environment, the whole surrounding environment will change as well. Based on my observations to-date, LH has not well analyzed the significant variations in outcome that are possible.

Whether this all works out to the advantage or disadvantage of Lufthansa in the end, I suppose remains to be seen. However, based on this post, which was a very illustrative example, tells me the risk LH is taking with what I have taken to calling the "4U Gambit" is messing around big time with the customer relationship, and LH is "playing with fire" to a degree I am not sure they understand.

Fredrik74

If you fly that route often we could be working for the same company.

I hear SK via CPH is the way to go. My HAM-based colleagues flying to AMS have suddenly found KL. A coincidence I'm sure.