htb

I would make sure the miles are credited first before pursuing the refund. Better be on the safe side...

HTB.

palmanfr

Thanks for the congrats Bernie2012 ! I would even say 5750 miles given that i am doubling my status miles between MUC and GVA (If I ever manage to go on this flight...) Let's hope I will get my miles without too many issues. I tried to contact M&M but they told me to wait 14 days before claiming missing miles... Even for LH flights. I hope I will get these miles... I also hope the get home tonight, the flight is delayed again...

weero

You do not really believe that this is what actually happened, do you?

OP got the usual Bravia Sierra all LH agents spit at you if you are SEN- or less.
LH can do no wrong. If they torture passenger, the chorus will chant "LH works in mysterious ways.."
The Cherubs' chant comes right here:
Lujah!
Why? So they can shove more "force majeure" down our throats? I think that they get away wayyyyys to easily as it is at this stage.

Often1

Actually, I've found weather problems on numerous carriers worldwide. Shockingly, it's not confined to LH. Breaking this down:

1. LH did a great job here. Rather than forcing OP to wait for the next LH connection, LH rebooked direct onto another carrier. That carrier had no C, but did have Y and that's where OP sat.

2. Luggage gets lost in massive IRROPS (even on good days) by LH and, shockingly, by other carriers too. Here, it was located & routed and OP got it. No carrier, including LH, pays consequential damages ("I missed by meeting because...", "We charge X per day", "I could have won the Irish Sweepstakes..."

3. OP has been offered a refund of the difference between what he paid & what he flew if he can provide a scan of his BP. He apparently can, it's not too much to ask, and presume he'll get it. It's a refund, not compensation or some other get rick quick trick. If the difference is X, that's what he gets.

Weather happens in this world. Grownups need to be able to adjust and it sounds as though OP did.

palmanfr

Hi,
I finally just got back home. Happy until I go back to HEL tomorrow evening.
12h30 min to to GVA-HEL, that's almost a record. Last time it took longer was during the icelanding volcano..
Yes I agree on pretty much all your points Often1, Swissport and LH did a good job in GVA. I forgot to mention one point though, The AY2870 flight was scheduled to leave GVA at 1900. At 1730, while in the Senator lounge in GVA I checked on expertflyer for the number of seats available for this flight as I knew it was full or almost full for weeks. The results were the following IIRC : J/1 C/1 D/1 Z/0 Y/0 B/0 and all classes below were 0. When we boarded, the pax in front of me got an opup to 01A.
IF Lufthansa is able to provide me a written proof that they asked and purchased to AY a business ticket, then I would have to file a claim directly to AY. LH is apparently unable to provide this document.
Perhaps LH is honest, and perhaps EU 261/2004 does not apply here. But so far, LH is not able to tell what is the fare difference between the paid Z and the economy ticket. Which booking class will they compare with ? I have no idea (E, T, S, M, B, Y ???) The difference would be significant. If they give me back 50CHF, which is the difference between Z and Y for this route, I would consider that as a joke.

I personally got better compensation from LH for less important things in the past (and by the past, I mean earlier this year), like extra miles or worldshop vouchers.

On all the flights I took these last 6 months and operated by LH, not a single one was on time. On all flights I took operated by LH for the last 2 months, everytime something went wrong at some point.
I understand airlines have limited responsability over luggage. But if I did not try myself to locate the luggage by calling Swissport GVA, Dnata GVA, Finnair and ISS Helsinki, the case would maybe still be on the belt as of today. The conclusion is that I lost a day of work, and will need to go back in Finland tomorrow. I am aware that there are no laws requiring the airline to give me something for that, but it is just common sense when you deal with loyal customers, which I think I was until today.

If you compare with what KLM is doing (and we all know here that KLM is not the greatest airline ever), when your luggage is delayed or when you miss you connection, you immediately get a voucher for your next flight. It does not cost much to the airline and honestly, I think it helps to keep a decent level of customer satisfaction when there is an IRROP. No laws require this, but this is just called "customer care".

Ok, I maybe 'just' spent 15000 CHF this year on LH, for tickets mostly booked in economy at the last minute, I know this is less than a lot of frequent travellers, but I think my request for a better treatment and a "commercial gesture" (I prefer this term as "compensation") is reasonable, but the answer given is not.

RTW1

I can imagine your pissed off at the moment.... but maybe you are also jumping to conclusions a bit too fast.

You really have no idea what LH is going to do for compensating you for the difference in fare classes, so why assume the worst? Just because you have been getting different answers from a few people, that happens a lot.... I guess if they have asked for a copy of your boarding pass they are at least looking at your case. Making quick decisions or empowering front office staff to do something pro actively doesn't seem to be in LH's nature. But normally after a few nudges they see the light, and sometimes they don't.

But would you have preferred to have been waiting for another flight until business class was available, or was getting to your destination more important?

For the part about the missing luggage I feel you should also look at your own responsibility. We all know that checked luggage can be lost, especially when there are disruptions. And in winter disruptions due to bad weather are not unheard of..... if you have something crucial to your work in your luggage you carry it with you, not in your checked baggage. And flying business you are entitled to two bags in the cabin so no real excuse not to do that.

palmanfr

Only issue with that is that this famous checked-in luggage contains measurement equipment and tools. Not the kind of stuff which goes through security easily (screwdriver, drill-bits, lasers etc...) and way too big and heavy to be taken as a carry on, even if First class !
Will see what LH decides to refund me. But again, yes they did a pretty good job in rebooking me and I indeed preffered to fly in Y than wait and fly in C.

RTW1

Then just accept you take your chances by checking it.... or use a commercial shipper. Not much you can do otherwise.

I also wonder how an insurance company would regard having this commercial stuff in your checked luggage. I'm guessing they probably wouldn't pay if it went missing.

ExpatSomchai

I have not book my flight to get back to HEL tomorrow but will most likely go back with KL, AY or try BA. I just my miles will be credited to M&M for both journeys as I am 4000 miles short in total. Thanks LHSEN, I got matched to BA gold from my old BMI account earlier this year and got my first OW flight credited yesterday (the AY flight from last sunday). More already booked for next year...
For the last 2 months, I got very disappointed from LH, so next year, I will not fly *A anymore I guess.

So are you claiming the AY flight miles and also want LH to credit those miles as well???

Often1

+1 - This is fundamentally a business decision by OP's employer. They choose to check valuable and necessary tools and thus bear the risk of delay & loss. That may be a perfectly valid business decision, but it's not one about which one can complain when it goes sideways.

htb

Why would that be? Hardly any baggage gets lost, so even at rather low insurance premiums this will be a good business for insurance companies.

And why does it even matter? If the baggage gets lost, LH is responsible, up to a certain amount depending on the weight. Tool cases tend to be quite heavy...

The airlines have a couple of exceptions, like money, jewelry etc., but I have never read that there would be a limitation concerning electronic equipment. Taking along a toolcase is common among engineers, and as I said above: bags hardly ever get lost (or are being delayed), no matter what anectotal evidence in these forums want to make you believe.

HTB.

RTW1

If it's a "commercial" insurance you are right.... but if expecting business related items to be insured on a regular travel insurance for checked luggage, you might be surprised.
And for the standard compensation.... you are probably still bound by the max weight. So that really won't cover it I assume. And then there is the not being able to work part.

So you take your chances when doing it this way. Might be a justified means of transport, but don't come crying when it goes wrong. Missing luggage is quite rare, delayed luggage a little less....

Rambuster

If you're unlucky LH will claim your Z fare was cheaper then full fare Y and will ask you to pay them the fare difference back !

(I got downgraded this year on a domestic business class ticket and they rebooked me into M class. LH credited me with lousy €70 ...)


At the end of the day I woul let it go, except asking them for original route credit on your M&M account. Remember that if you get a fare difference credit you might no longer be eligible for original route credit !?@:-)

LH got you to HEL even by rebooking you on AY. They could have made you wait for the next LH flight, delaying you even further.

Snow happens.

weero

... you could use a carrier that looses luggage on a less epic scale than good ol'LH does. I have never used a carrier which bungles luggage as reliably as LH does. They miss 4 hour connections in FRA (happened 15 times to me), put "hot" stickers on your suitcase for a 100 minute transfer in MUC and then miss it (happened 6 times to me), rebook you onto another airline because of strike issues and with 120 minutes to go until departure do not manage to forward the luggage to those carriers (happened 3 times to me). And sometimes they simply bungle loading the luggage on point-to-point connections for reasons unknown (happened 4 times to me).

I am usually in the same boat as the OP, I have to check my luggage for security and weight issues hence my broad exposure to the LH loose-luggage 'policy'.
You mean the insurers already know how bad LH is?
That is neither true nor relevant. I check valuable equipment spread over 2-3 suitcases for 15+ years now and after LH's latest bungle I am reaching my 50th lost incident. Not once have items be actively stolen from my luggage nor has any of these transports ever resulted in a permanent loss. So the issue isn't really there.

Second, courts in Europe repeatedly ruled that airlines are paid for the transport and hence are liable in case of a loss.

And most importantly: out of 7 shipments I used two of the world's largest shipping companies for 2 got very badly bungled. One for 10 days, the other one for more than two weeks ... much more than any airline ever did to me. This advice is merely based on hearsay and preconceived ideas and is not rooted in tangible data.
The usual fact-free concoction ... as long as it helps the primeval urge of advanced airline apologetics.
A point-to-point transfer is aeons from a "massive irrop" and the rest is the usual speculation to embellish the sad truth that LH crisis management sucks.
Can be truthfully condensed to "LH doesn't pay".
Pure speculation. And - given the sea of economy fares out there - a quite meaningless one. It could as well be a tactics to to delay and make up an excuse (demand BP, hair sample, photo of plane interior) not to pay the OP anything.

Bernie2012

^

What you do then if they move you on the next flight from M to D? I mean...

^

This must be a glitch, how comes that LH does something like that?!?

Apparently not everywhere