Feedback thread for the official LH Lurker(s), LufthansaGermanAirlines

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Old Oct 14, 12, 5:44 am
  #76  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: PRG
Posts: 85
Dear Lurkers,

I have been unable to get a clear answer/solution from the official support, so I will just try here:

There are supposed to be mileage bargain awards from Prague to Warsaw (and other Polish cities) with LOT for 10,000 miles. I am unable to find ANY discounted flights in the promotional period and also I am unable to find ANY direct flights at all (which is even weirder) - only flights via Germany or Austria.

I have been told from customer support, that availability is limited, but there should, however, be seats for PRG-WAW on December 14 and back December 16 or 17. I cannot see these seats at all.

I have uploaded screenshots of what I see in the system:

http://prntscr.com/h8j2z and http://prntscr.com/h8j5j

The customer support is however apparently unable to open these and wants me to call... There is no way to attach the screenshots directly in the online form. I hope you are capable of opening a link...

I have checked and I can for example see plenty of mileage bargains on route PRG-BRU with Brussels Airlines.

Thanks!
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Old Oct 15, 12, 9:58 am
  #77  
Company Representative - Lufthansa Airlines
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 832
Hi everyone,

There are still unanswered questions regarding op-ups, proving that this issue is very important to you. However, I have to tell you that it is indeed impossible to provide you with a fixed set of procedure rules applicable to each and every situation.

Our check-in system does suggest an operational UPG list based on the booked class and status. But in the end, the final UPG decision lies in the hand of the the local station, and may even take other factors than status and tarif into account - there may be reasons why neither the HON nor the highest booking class holder receive the operational upgrade. It always depends on the individual situation. And paid upgrades - e.g. with miles - will always have priority.

I realize that this answer will not completely satisfy you. I can promise you that it is our aim to give you as much information as possible, but there will always be topics or details that Lufthansa considers confidential. In these cases we do hope for your understanding, that we – the Lufthansa Flyertalk Team – will have to adhere to this. As for seat 1A's question about the definition of customer equity - Lufthansa's internal defintion is considered to be such confidential information.

But you can be sure that we will always forward your statements and opinions to the responsible Lufthansa departments. In this case, I have understood that for you, op-ups are a clear sign of Lufthansa acknowledging your loyalty as a top tier customer, and I have passed this on.

Best regards,

Michaela
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Old Oct 15, 12, 1:20 pm
  #78  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 5,972
A-ha, this sounds suspiciously different from what was posted earlier on. So now it is no longer "status first" and it actually all turns out to be a big confidential mystery.

Also noteworthy that previously it wasn't a confidential mystery, but a well established fact that status really was determinant of upgrades. That has changed, and I wonder why.

I hope Lufthansa gets the right message here: we are not a bunch of US flyers who expect to be upgraded no matter what. We are fine with the LH policy that upgrades are only given when flights are overbooked. All we would like is when those limited upgrades are given status customers are considered first as a recognition of their loyalty.

If Lufthansa wants to get a feel for how passengers think and feel when some mysterious mechanism is at work for upgrades and employees always get a favour treatment, head over to the Air France forum.

Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines View Post
I have understood that for you, op-ups are a clear sign of Lufthansa acknowledging your loyalty as a top tier customer
You bet!!
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Old Oct 15, 12, 1:41 pm
  #79  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,069
Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines View Post
. As for seat 1A's question about the definition of customer equity - Lufthansa's internal defintion is considered to be such confidential information.


Best regards,

Michaela
Crystal Clear . Thank you

Just for the record , the term was introduced by you in this thread , simply made me curious
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Old Oct 15, 12, 8:21 pm
  #80  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 2,865
Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines View Post
Hi everyone,

There are still unanswered questions regarding op-ups, proving that this issue is very important to you. However, I have to tell you that it is indeed impossible to provide you with a fixed set of procedure rules applicable to each and every situation.

Our check-in system does suggest an operational UPG list based on the booked class and status. But in the end, the final UPG decision lies in the hand of the the local station, and may even take other factors than status and tarif into account - there may be reasons why neither the HON nor the highest booking class holder receive the operational upgrade. It always depends on the individual situation. And paid upgrades - e.g. with miles - will always have priority.

I realize that this answer will not completely satisfy you. I can promise you that it is our aim to give you as much information as possible, but there will always be topics or details that Lufthansa considers confidential. In these cases we do hope for your understanding, that we the Lufthansa Flyertalk Team will have to adhere to this. As for seat 1A's question about the definition of customer equity - Lufthansa's internal defintion is considered to be such confidential information.

But you can be sure that we will always forward your statements and opinions to the responsible Lufthansa departments. In this case, I have understood that for you, op-ups are a clear sign of Lufthansa acknowledging your loyalty as a top tier customer, and I have passed this on.

Best regards,

Michaela
For the benefit of clear and transparent communication, let me 'translate' your slightly cryptic message:

Booking class trumps status. The earlier post by the LH team that status is the main driver for upgrades is wrong. LH does not care whether you are HON or SEN when it comes to op-ups unless you are booked in the most expensive booking class.

System Upgrade List trumps over staff. LH has taken all empowerment from staff and the system generated list needs to be adhered to. Deviations from that list need to have a rationale and are thoroughly audited. That's true for German and international stations. Hence, booking class over status is strictly enforced.

No rule without exceptions. While LH tries to perfectionize their yield management approach, there are sometimes circumstances beyond control. In those exceptional circumstances, an upgrade could be handed out to someone flying on an awards, a non-eligible booking class or might not have status. The total number of these exceptions should be very, very small.

Upgrade trumps redemption. FTL upgrading a Z ticket with miles is getting priority over HON redeeming an award in First. Note the difference to the LX approach where HONs still get priority.

Smoke and mirrors still seems to be Lufthansa's preferred mean of communication. Appreciate that the lurkers are still escalating the matter for further review though.
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Old Oct 15, 12, 9:41 pm
  #81  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 7,717
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
I hope Lufthansa gets the right message here: we are not a bunch of US flyers who expect to be upgraded no matter what. We are fine with the LH policy that upgrades are only given when flights are overbooked. All we would like is when those limited upgrades are given status customers are considered first as a recognition of their loyalty.
Exactly!
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Old Oct 16, 12, 7:29 am
  #82  
Company Representative - Lufthansa Airlines
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 832
Originally Posted by Marr3wk View Post
Dear Lurkers,

I have been unable to get a clear answer/solution from the official support, so I will just try here:

There are supposed to be mileage bargain awards from Prague to Warsaw (and other Polish cities) with LOT for 10,000 miles. I am unable to find ANY discounted flights in the promotional period and also I am unable to find ANY direct flights at all (which is even weirder) - only flights via Germany or Austria.

I have been told from customer support, that availability is limited, but there should, however, be seats for PRG-WAW on December 14 and back December 16 or 17. I cannot see these seats at all.

I have uploaded screenshots of what I see in the system:

http://prntscr.com/h8j2z and http://prntscr.com/h8j5j

The customer support is however apparently unable to open these and wants me to call... There is no way to attach the screenshots directly in the online form. I hope you are capable of opening a link...

I have checked and I can for example see plenty of mileage bargains on route PRG-BRU with Brussels Airlines.

Thanks!

Dear Marr3wk, I have checked a few dates for the routing that you are wanting to book and was not able to get any availability shown - at the same time I am unable to access any availabilty of seats that may have been in the system previously (yesterday or earlier even). In order to find out whether the allocation for the mileage bargain is indeed already sold out on the mileage bargain special or whether there is another reason, I will contact my colleagues from Miles & More. Kind regards, Isabell
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Old Oct 16, 12, 5:13 pm
  #83  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: IE / PL
Programs: TK*G (E+)
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines View Post
Hi mamb0 & EBookLover,

Status comes first HON before SEN, SEN before FTL, etc. If there e.g. are more HONs than op-ups, then Customer Value factors such as booking class, customer equity etc. will come into effect. Simply put: if there is one op-up, but 2 HONs, then the HON with the higher value at that time will get the op-up.

Michaela
My yestardays flight WAW-MUC: FTL passenger before me in the queue (booking class W), and I behind him in the queue and economy T.
How do you think, who got the "red beeeep" and upgrade to C?
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Old Oct 16, 12, 5:59 pm
  #84  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Lifetime Globalist
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Originally Posted by dromack View Post
My yestardays flight WAW-MUC: FTL passenger before me in the queue (booking class W), and I behind him in the queue and economy T.
How do you think, who got the "red beeeep" and upgrade to C?
None of you should have gotten the upgrade.

Another details the lurkers won't share is that booking classes below Q, namely S, V, W, E, K, L, T are nowadays excluded from op-ups despite earning miles.

The upgrade should have gone to someone flying in Q or higher, even if that person had no status. Pax in S, V, W, E, K, L, T will not be considered by the system for the upgrade list used by ground staff even if they are HON.
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Old Oct 16, 12, 9:57 pm
  #85  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
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Originally Posted by SMK77 View Post
None of you should have gotten the upgrade.

Another details the lurkers won't share is that booking classes below Q, namely S, V, W, E, K, L, T are nowadays excluded from op-ups despite earning miles.

The upgrade should have gone to someone flying in Q or higher, even if that person had no status. Pax in S, V, W, E, K, L, T will not be considered by the system for the upgrade list used by ground staff even if they are HON.
Maybe the FM's are trying to override the system to make sure status customers are kept happy?

It sounds far-fetched, but...!

Another option - LH is realizing the folly of its ways now??
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Old Oct 17, 12, 1:29 am
  #86  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Programs: SK EBD (*G)
Posts: 1,994
Are this LH staff handling boarding in WAW, or is it LO staff? (this could also have some bearing -- LO is not an LH subsidiary).
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Old Oct 17, 12, 4:44 am
  #87  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SZG
Posts: 3,936
Originally Posted by SMK77 View Post
Another details the lurkers won't share is that booking classes below Q, namely S, V, W, E, K, L, T are nowadays excluded from op-ups despite earning miles.
since i had several op-up from said classes in the last few months i have my doubts...
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Old Oct 17, 12, 8:15 am
  #88  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ORD
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Posts: 7,769
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
I hope Lufthansa gets the right message here: we are not a bunch of US flyers who expect to be upgraded no matter what.
Com'n there is no need for stereotyping in such discussion
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Old Oct 17, 12, 8:33 am
  #89  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by sentom View Post
since i had several op-up from said classes in the last few months i have my doubts...
On German/European or international routes? And then: what booking classes. There are the cheap but full miles earning booking classes and the cheaper reduced miles earning booking classes.

On international routes, everything below Q is an exception as per current rules.
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Old Oct 17, 12, 9:31 am
  #90  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SZG
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Originally Posted by SMK77 View Post
On German/European or international routes? And then: what booking classes. There are the cheap but full miles earning booking classes and the cheaper reduced miles earning booking classes.

On international routes, everything below Q is an exception as per current rules.
intra european routes, from cheapest class upwards, even X. longhaul i only fly C/F...
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