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-   -   Feedback thread for the official LH Lurker(s), LufthansaGermanAirlines (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/1390816-feedback-thread-official-lh-lurker-s-lufthansagermanairlines.html)

Marr3wk Oct 14, 12 5:44 am

Dear Lurkers,

I have been unable to get a clear answer/solution from the official support, so I will just try here:

There are supposed to be mileage bargain awards from Prague to Warsaw (and other Polish cities) with LOT for 10,000 miles. I am unable to find ANY discounted flights in the promotional period and also I am unable to find ANY direct flights at all (which is even weirder) - only flights via Germany or Austria.

I have been told from customer support, that availability is limited, but there should, however, be seats for PRG-WAW on December 14 and back December 16 or 17. I cannot see these seats at all.

I have uploaded screenshots of what I see in the system:

http://prntscr.com/h8j2z and http://prntscr.com/h8j5j

The customer support is however apparently unable to open these and wants me to call... There is no way to attach the screenshots directly in the online form. I hope you are capable of opening a link...

I have checked and I can for example see plenty of mileage bargains on route PRG-BRU with Brussels Airlines.

Thanks!

LufthansaGermanAirlines Oct 15, 12 9:58 am

Hi everyone,

There are still unanswered questions regarding op-ups, proving that this issue is very important to you. However, I have to tell you that it is indeed impossible to provide you with a fixed set of procedure rules applicable to each and every situation.

Our check-in system does suggest an operational UPG list based on the booked class and status. But in the end, the final UPG decision lies in the hand of the the local station, and may even take other factors than status and tarif into account - there may be reasons why neither the HON nor the highest booking class holder receive the operational upgrade. It always depends on the individual situation. And paid upgrades - e.g. with miles - will always have priority.

I realize that this answer will not completely satisfy you. I can promise you that it is our aim to give you as much information as possible, but there will always be topics or details that Lufthansa considers confidential. In these cases we do hope for your understanding, that we – the Lufthansa Flyertalk Team – will have to adhere to this. As for seat 1A's question about the definition of customer equity - Lufthansa's internal defintion is considered to be such confidential information.

But you can be sure that we will always forward your statements and opinions to the responsible Lufthansa departments. In this case, I have understood that for you, op-ups are a clear sign of Lufthansa acknowledging your loyalty as a top tier customer, and I have passed this on.

Best regards,

Michaela

San Gottardo Oct 15, 12 1:20 pm

A-ha, this sounds suspiciously different from what was posted earlier on. So now it is no longer "status first" and it actually all turns out to be a big confidential mystery.

Also noteworthy that previously it wasn't a confidential mystery, but a well established fact that status really was determinant of upgrades. That has changed, and I wonder why.

I hope Lufthansa gets the right message here: we are not a bunch of US flyers who expect to be upgraded no matter what. We are fine with the LH policy that upgrades are only given when flights are overbooked. All we would like is when those limited upgrades are given status customers are considered first as a recognition of their loyalty.

If Lufthansa wants to get a feel for how passengers think and feel when some mysterious mechanism is at work for upgrades and employees always get a favour treatment, head over to the Air France forum.


Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines (Post 19499105)
I have understood that for you, op-ups are a clear sign of Lufthansa acknowledging your loyalty as a top tier customer

You bet!!

seat 1a Oct 15, 12 1:41 pm


Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines (Post 19499105)
. As for seat 1A's question about the definition of customer equity - Lufthansa's internal defintion is considered to be such confidential information.


Best regards,

Michaela

Crystal Clear . Thank you:D

Just for the record , the term was introduced by you in this thread , simply made me curious ;)

SMK77 Oct 15, 12 8:21 pm


Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines (Post 19499105)
Hi everyone,

There are still unanswered questions regarding op-ups, proving that this issue is very important to you. However, I have to tell you that it is indeed impossible to provide you with a fixed set of procedure rules applicable to each and every situation.

Our check-in system does suggest an operational UPG list based on the booked class and status. But in the end, the final UPG decision lies in the hand of the the local station, and may even take other factors than status and tarif into account - there may be reasons why neither the HON nor the highest booking class holder receive the operational upgrade. It always depends on the individual situation. And paid upgrades - e.g. with miles - will always have priority.

I realize that this answer will not completely satisfy you. I can promise you that it is our aim to give you as much information as possible, but there will always be topics or details that Lufthansa considers confidential. In these cases we do hope for your understanding, that we the Lufthansa Flyertalk Team will have to adhere to this. As for seat 1A's question about the definition of customer equity - Lufthansa's internal defintion is considered to be such confidential information.

But you can be sure that we will always forward your statements and opinions to the responsible Lufthansa departments. In this case, I have understood that for you, op-ups are a clear sign of Lufthansa acknowledging your loyalty as a top tier customer, and I have passed this on.

Best regards,

Michaela

For the benefit of clear and transparent communication, let me 'translate' your slightly cryptic message:

Booking class trumps status. The earlier post by the LH team that status is the main driver for upgrades is wrong. LH does not care whether you are HON or SEN when it comes to op-ups unless you are booked in the most expensive booking class.

System Upgrade List trumps over staff. LH has taken all empowerment from staff and the system generated list needs to be adhered to. Deviations from that list need to have a rationale and are thoroughly audited. That's true for German and international stations. Hence, booking class over status is strictly enforced.

No rule without exceptions. While LH tries to perfectionize their yield management approach, there are sometimes circumstances beyond control. In those exceptional circumstances, an upgrade could be handed out to someone flying on an awards, a non-eligible booking class or might not have status. The total number of these exceptions should be very, very small.

Upgrade trumps redemption. FTL upgrading a Z ticket with miles is getting priority over HON redeeming an award in First. Note the difference to the LX approach where HONs still get priority.

Smoke and mirrors still seems to be Lufthansa's preferred mean of communication. Appreciate that the lurkers are still escalating the matter for further review though.

SuperFlyBoy Oct 15, 12 9:41 pm


Originally Posted by San Gottardo (Post 19500370)
I hope Lufthansa gets the right message here: we are not a bunch of US flyers who expect to be upgraded no matter what. We are fine with the LH policy that upgrades are only given when flights are overbooked. All we would like is when those limited upgrades are given status customers are considered first as a recognition of their loyalty.

Exactly! ^

LufthansaGermanAirlines Oct 16, 12 7:29 am


Originally Posted by Marr3wk (Post 19492731)
Dear Lurkers,

I have been unable to get a clear answer/solution from the official support, so I will just try here:

There are supposed to be mileage bargain awards from Prague to Warsaw (and other Polish cities) with LOT for 10,000 miles. I am unable to find ANY discounted flights in the promotional period and also I am unable to find ANY direct flights at all (which is even weirder) - only flights via Germany or Austria.

I have been told from customer support, that availability is limited, but there should, however, be seats for PRG-WAW on December 14 and back December 16 or 17. I cannot see these seats at all.

I have uploaded screenshots of what I see in the system:

http://prntscr.com/h8j2z and http://prntscr.com/h8j5j

The customer support is however apparently unable to open these and wants me to call... There is no way to attach the screenshots directly in the online form. I hope you are capable of opening a link...

I have checked and I can for example see plenty of mileage bargains on route PRG-BRU with Brussels Airlines.

Thanks!


Dear Marr3wk, I have checked a few dates for the routing that you are wanting to book and was not able to get any availability shown - at the same time I am unable to access any availabilty of seats that may have been in the system previously (yesterday or earlier even). In order to find out whether the allocation for the mileage bargain is indeed already sold out on the mileage bargain special or whether there is another reason, I will contact my colleagues from Miles & More. Kind regards, Isabell

dromack Oct 16, 12 5:13 pm


Originally Posted by LufthansaGermanAirlines (Post 19414980)
Hi mamb0 & EBookLover,

Status comes first HON before SEN, SEN before FTL, etc. If there e.g. are more HONs than op-ups, then Customer Value factors such as booking class, customer equity etc. will come into effect. Simply put: if there is one op-up, but 2 HONs, then the HON with the higher value at that time will get the op-up.

Michaela

My yestardays flight WAW-MUC: FTL passenger before me in the queue (booking class W), and I behind him in the queue and economy T.
How do you think, who got the "red beeeep" and upgrade to C? ;)

SMK77 Oct 16, 12 5:59 pm


Originally Posted by dromack (Post 19508512)
My yestardays flight WAW-MUC: FTL passenger before me in the queue (booking class W), and I behind him in the queue and economy T.
How do you think, who got the "red beeeep" and upgrade to C? ;)

None of you should have gotten the upgrade.

Another details the lurkers won't share is that booking classes below Q, namely S, V, W, E, K, L, T are nowadays excluded from op-ups despite earning miles.

The upgrade should have gone to someone flying in Q or higher, even if that person had no status. Pax in S, V, W, E, K, L, T will not be considered by the system for the upgrade list used by ground staff even if they are HON.

SuperFlyBoy Oct 16, 12 9:57 pm


Originally Posted by SMK77 (Post 19508771)
None of you should have gotten the upgrade.

Another details the lurkers won't share is that booking classes below Q, namely S, V, W, E, K, L, T are nowadays excluded from op-ups despite earning miles.

The upgrade should have gone to someone flying in Q or higher, even if that person had no status. Pax in S, V, W, E, K, L, T will not be considered by the system for the upgrade list used by ground staff even if they are HON.

Maybe the FM's are trying to override the system to make sure status customers are kept happy?

It sounds far-fetched, but...!

Another option - LH is realizing the folly of its ways now?? :cool:

SK2751 Oct 17, 12 1:29 am

Are this LH staff handling boarding in WAW, or is it LO staff? (this could also have some bearing -- LO is not an LH subsidiary).

sentom Oct 17, 12 4:44 am


Originally Posted by SMK77 (Post 19508771)
Another details the lurkers won't share is that booking classes below Q, namely S, V, W, E, K, L, T are nowadays excluded from op-ups despite earning miles.

since i had several op-up from said classes in the last few months i have my doubts...

NA-Flyer Oct 17, 12 8:15 am


Originally Posted by San Gottardo (Post 19500370)
I hope Lufthansa gets the right message here: we are not a bunch of US flyers who expect to be upgraded no matter what.

Com'n there is no need for stereotyping in such discussion :eek:

SMK77 Oct 17, 12 8:33 am


Originally Posted by sentom (Post 19511660)
since i had several op-up from said classes in the last few months i have my doubts...

On German/European or international routes? And then: what booking classes. There are the cheap but full miles earning booking classes and the cheaper reduced miles earning booking classes.

On international routes, everything below Q is an exception as per current rules.

sentom Oct 17, 12 9:31 am


Originally Posted by SMK77 (Post 19512651)
On German/European or international routes? And then: what booking classes. There are the cheap but full miles earning booking classes and the cheaper reduced miles earning booking classes.

On international routes, everything below Q is an exception as per current rules.

intra european routes, from cheapest class upwards, even X. longhaul i only fly C/F...


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