FRA-TLV going from L/H to S/H - How do you feel about it? [merged]
Jul 19, 2012, 8:58 am
#32
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,080
Strange, regular F sales is not possible anymore:
There is no O inventory either:
Code:
>tn21novfratlv/alh
TN21NOVFRATLV/ALH
** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** TLV TEL AVIV YAFO.IL 21NOV12 28NOV12
1 LH 686 D FRA 1 TLV 3 0935 1435 0 28OCT12 28MAR13 321 4:00
2 LH 690 D FRA 1 TLV 3 1925 0035+1 0 28OCT12 27MAR13 321 4:10
3 LH 170 7 FRA 1 TXL 0645 0755 0 CONNECT TXL 321
LH 682 7 TXL TLV 3 0845 1345 0 11NOV12 23DEC12 320 6:00
4 LH 098 X35 FRA 1 MUC 2 0700 0805 0 CONNECT MUC 321
LH 688 X35 MUC 2 TLV 3 0925 1405 0 05NOV12 20DEC12 321 6:05
5 LH 070 124 FRA 1 MUC 2 0630 0735 0 CONNECT MUC 321
LH 688 124 MUC 2 TLV 3 0925 1405 0 05NOV12 20DEC12 321 6:35
6 LH 174 6 FRA 1 TXL 0745 0855 0 CONNECT TXL 321
LH 682 6 TXL TLV 3 1120 1620 0 10NOV12 15DEC12 320 7:35
>ad21novfratlv/alh/kc,f
AD21NOVFRATLV/ALH/KC,F
** AMADEUS AVAILABILITY - AD ** TLV TEL AVIV YAFO.IL 125 WE 21NOV 0000
1 LH 686 J9 C9 DL ZL P3 RL /FRA 1 TLV 3 0935 1435 E0/321 4:00
2 LH 690 J9 C9 D9 Z5 P3 R2 /FRA 1 TLV 3 1925 0035+1E0/321 4:10
>
Code:
AD21NOVFRATLV/ALH/CO,I ** AMADEUS AVAILABILITY - AD ** TLV TEL AVIV YAFO.IL 125 WE 21NOV 0000 1 LH 686 IL /FRA 1 TLV 3 0935 1435 E0/321 4:00 2 LH 690 I3 /FRA 1 TLV 3 1925 0035+1E0/321 4:10
Jul 19, 2012, 6:40 pm
#33
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, SQ PPS Solitaire
Posts: 3,597
Confirmed:
FRA-TLV goes 321
BKK will go 346 and keep First Class:
http://airlineroute.net/2012/07/19/lh-w12update4/
FRA-TLV goes 321
BKK will go 346 and keep First Class:
http://airlineroute.net/2012/07/19/lh-w12update4/
Jul 22, 2012, 11:08 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Diamond Elite Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Platinum
Posts: 12,948
FRA-TLV going from L/H to S/H - How do you feel about it?
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion (other than a few posts in the "who will lose First" thread) here about the upcoming loss of Long Haul product on the FRA-TLV route.
BA are downgrading the LHR-TLV to an A321 but with a proper business class and lie flat seats, better Economy class, and three daily flight yet we're all moaning about the move bitterly...
LH are properly downgrading the route to an A320/1 with European configuration meaning no proper C, after years of running 744s and A340 with proper C and F yet it hasn't created even a fraction of the "noise" it has on the BA forum (thread about TLV changes now reaching over 300 posts...).
So any of you TLV route regulars, how do you feel about it? I for one cannot see myself choosing LH for future travel and if I were wanting *A I would go for LX (well at least while they still offer a proper L/H product.
BA are downgrading the LHR-TLV to an A321 but with a proper business class and lie flat seats, better Economy class, and three daily flight yet we're all moaning about the move bitterly...
LH are properly downgrading the route to an A320/1 with European configuration meaning no proper C, after years of running 744s and A340 with proper C and F yet it hasn't created even a fraction of the "noise" it has on the BA forum (thread about TLV changes now reaching over 300 posts...).
So any of you TLV route regulars, how do you feel about it? I for one cannot see myself choosing LH for future travel and if I were wanting *A I would go for LX (well at least while they still offer a proper L/H product.
Jul 22, 2012, 11:46 pm
#35
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: All of them...
Posts: 382
It looked to me (maybe I wrong), that BA was 'adding' an A321 on the TLV route. LH runs an A32S from BER, from FRA/MUC they run 747/A340s
Edit: just seen the changes, FRA-TLV will be A330 twice daily, MUC-TLV will be A321 5/weekly
Edit: just seen the changes, FRA-TLV will be A330 twice daily, MUC-TLV will be A321 5/weekly
Last edited by chff; Jul 22, 2012 at 11:52 pm
Jul 22, 2012, 11:52 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,555
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion (other than a few posts in the "who will lose First" thread) here about the upcoming loss of Long Haul product on the FRA-TLV route.
BA are downgrading the LHR-TLV to an A321 but with a proper business class and lie flat seats, better Economy class, and three daily flight yet we're all moaning about the move bitterly...
LH are properly downgrading the route to an A320/1 with European configuration meaning no proper C, after years of running 744s and A340 with proper C and F yet it hasn't created even a fraction of the "noise" it has on the BA forum (thread about TLV changes now reaching over 300 posts...).
So any of you TLV route regulars, how do you feel about it? I for one cannot see myself choosing LH for future travel and if I were wanting *A I would go for LX (well at least while they still offer a proper L/H product.
BA are downgrading the LHR-TLV to an A321 but with a proper business class and lie flat seats, better Economy class, and three daily flight yet we're all moaning about the move bitterly...
LH are properly downgrading the route to an A320/1 with European configuration meaning no proper C, after years of running 744s and A340 with proper C and F yet it hasn't created even a fraction of the "noise" it has on the BA forum (thread about TLV changes now reaching over 300 posts...).
So any of you TLV route regulars, how do you feel about it? I for one cannot see myself choosing LH for future travel and if I were wanting *A I would go for LX (well at least while they still offer a proper L/H product.
1. Reduced earning in Z class from September
2. Inability (possibly) to upgrade from Z class using my stack of e-Vouchers
3. Increased spending for business class awards to USA/Far East (last year)
4. Finding FRA frustrating, esp TLV gate which has no lounge after security
5. Reduction of HON bonus from 50 to 25% a few years ago prevented me from renewing HON.
6. If I was still HON, the lack of booking guarantee in D would be very frustrating.
So I guess it's 'death my 1000 cuts'.
My preference for past year has been LX - have made most of my trips on LX as I prefer the seat and transfer in ZRH. I am now more concerned about the impact of LH refugees on limitted LX busioness class seats, than on the loss of LH themselves. Especially Sunday TLV-ZRH and Thursday night ZRH-TLV will be very tight, not sure if I will be able to get reasonable D/J fares then (or upgrade using e-Vouchers).
Having said that, the BA alternative is suddenly less attractive also...
Jul 23, 2012, 12:10 am
#37
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,555
Forgot to add, that one of the biggest problems with the changes (IMO) is the changed timing for LH690 FRA-TLV, to 1930 I think. It is no longer possible to have a full work day outside FRA and connect to overnight flight on Thursday. I used to do that a lot from OSL, HEL, ARN, MUC and many others (even LHR). The new timing makes that impossible, and I don't like returning on Friday in winter (have had some bad experiences). May need to return via LX, or fly on BA (which has some quite good connections to night return flight LHR-TLV).
The changes will also make me much more likely to book cheapest economy class if I do fly LH - previously I would normally spend a few hundred dollars extra to fly business class, no longer....may make renewing SEN a bit more tricky...
The changes will also make me much more likely to book cheapest economy class if I do fly LH - previously I would normally spend a few hundred dollars extra to fly business class, no longer....may make renewing SEN a bit more tricky...
Jul 23, 2012, 12:23 am
#38
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
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All 3 daily BA flights will be operated with A321s (Long Haul product but without PE and F) and LH's FRA-TLV will be operated with a Euro configured A321, not A330 as previously planned.
http://airlineroute.net/2012/07/19/lh-w12update4/
Jul 23, 2012, 12:24 am
#39
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I've spoken to 3 other TLV based Senators in the past few days and all has the same issue.
Jul 23, 2012, 5:33 am
#40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: EFHK - HEL
Programs: AY, LH, KL, SK, D8, Marriott, Melia.
Posts: 607
2013 equipment to TLV is with A321 from MUC and FRA. And LH is selling F tickets for A321:
Frankfurt (FRA) To Tel Aviv Yafo (TLV) : Thu 3 Jan
From To Flight Duration First Flex
09:35 Frankfurt 14:35 Tel Aviv Yafo
LH686
4h00 € 2337.99
Currency Convertor Rebooking: free
Refund: free
Mileage Credit:* 300%
Mileage Upgrade:** not applicable
Close Conditions Total Price: € 4635.43
Detailed flight information
Flight LH686
Departs 09:35 on Thu 3 Jan
Frankfurt, Frankfurt International, Terminal 1
Arrives 14:35 on Thu 3 Jan
Tel Aviv Yafo, Ben Gurion International, Terminal 3
Duration 4h00
Airline Lufthansa
Aircraft Airbus Industrie A321
Which downgrades to J fare:
Date Departure Arrival Flight Duration Cabin
Thu 3 Jan 09:35Frankfurt 14:35 Tel Aviv Yafo
LH686
4h00 Business (J)
Thu 10 Jan 16:10Tel Aviv Yafo 19:55 Frankfurt
LH687
4h45 Business (J)
Total Price
Fare
(per person) Taxes, fees and carrier charges
(per person) Passengers
Total
4469.00 + 166.43 x 1 Adult = € 4635.43
Total Price for all passengers = € 4635.43
Business Z/D combination fare for same dates is: 2155,43€
Frankfurt (FRA) To Tel Aviv Yafo (TLV) : Thu 3 Jan
From To Flight Duration First Flex
09:35 Frankfurt 14:35 Tel Aviv Yafo
LH686
4h00 € 2337.99
Currency Convertor Rebooking: free
Refund: free
Mileage Credit:* 300%
Mileage Upgrade:** not applicable
Close Conditions Total Price: € 4635.43
Detailed flight information
Flight LH686
Departs 09:35 on Thu 3 Jan
Frankfurt, Frankfurt International, Terminal 1
Arrives 14:35 on Thu 3 Jan
Tel Aviv Yafo, Ben Gurion International, Terminal 3
Duration 4h00
Airline Lufthansa
Aircraft Airbus Industrie A321
Which downgrades to J fare:
Date Departure Arrival Flight Duration Cabin
Thu 3 Jan 09:35Frankfurt 14:35 Tel Aviv Yafo
LH686
4h00 Business (J)
Thu 10 Jan 16:10Tel Aviv Yafo 19:55 Frankfurt
LH687
4h45 Business (J)
Total Price
Fare
(per person) Taxes, fees and carrier charges
(per person) Passengers
Total
4469.00 + 166.43 x 1 Adult = € 4635.43
Total Price for all passengers = € 4635.43
Business Z/D combination fare for same dates is: 2155,43€
Jul 23, 2012, 6:09 am
#42
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,080
Jul 23, 2012, 6:19 am
#43
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,555
Service after winter
I haven't seen an official communication from LH - do we know if this is planned as a temporary or permanent change (eg due to rollout of new C class seat)? Will we return to wide-body service next summer? If not, will be fun next summer!
Aug 19, 2012, 8:46 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,512
I'm hoping that this is some sort of experiment that will fail and they will go back, but only time will tell.
Aug 19, 2012, 12:22 pm
#45
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
Already the change from B744 to A346 on the LH687/8 flights seemed off, and now this. The plains are always full and mostly also Biz class.
I hope this is just for the winter season as they replace old Biz seats, because many of us use FRATLV as part of a connecting flight and you can't spend all these hrs on a S/H seat..
I hope this is just for the winter season as they replace old Biz seats, because many of us use FRATLV as part of a connecting flight and you can't spend all these hrs on a S/H seat..
