Has LH revenue management lost the plot?
Jan 5, 2013, 4:00 pm
#211
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
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I'd go with QR or EK!
You won't be disappointed!
Currently I have EK Gold Status but will be re-evaluating once QR join OneWorld.
LH are asking for trouble in the future IMHO, as they are actively p***ing off so many customers. I'm hedging my bets with BA, CX and EK.
You won't be disappointed!
Currently I have EK Gold Status but will be re-evaluating once QR join OneWorld.
LH are asking for trouble in the future IMHO, as they are actively p***ing off so many customers. I'm hedging my bets with BA, CX and EK.
Jan 5, 2013, 6:13 pm
#212
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ZRH / MUC / VIE
Programs: M&M basic / happy Wizzair+ user :-)
Posts: 6,490
Welcome to the world of LH!
I have seen flights MUC-ZRH with 19 pax on board and Y9B9M0.....0 even a week before...
Jan 5, 2013, 6:29 pm
#213
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Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
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I was recently on a Z ticket which I wanted to rebook.
The waitlist got denied, then I rebooked to D class.
This also got rejected by revenue management.
Finally a C class ticket cleared the waiting list about 12h before departure.
The flight took off with 8 rows of Business (32 seats available for sale) and only 2 seats occupied!
I won't be playing that game anymore!
I'll requalify my status until 02/16 soon, but that's going to be it.
After then it will be time to burn my 3.5m miles.
I might reconsider once cooler head prevail at the top of LH.
Jan 5, 2013, 7:44 pm
#214
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
..The waitlist got denied, then I rebooked to D class.
This also got rejected by revenue management.
Finally a C class ticket cleared the waiting list about 12h before departure.
The flight took off with 8 rows of Business (32 seats available for sale) and only 2 seats occupied! ..
This also got rejected by revenue management.
Finally a C class ticket cleared the waiting list about 12h before departure.
The flight took off with 8 rows of Business (32 seats available for sale) and only 2 seats occupied! ..
Prior to the demise of M&M you would have gotten some creationist intelligent management design theory based on married segments and the gods of bid-and-ask.
I wonder of it is the same with overpriced coach fares ex SIN? Of course I am not really qualified to comment on the travel experience itself as every single LH longhaul I was booked on got canceled since February ...
Jan 5, 2013, 8:45 pm
#215
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IAH and HAM
Programs: LH Sen, PPS, FB Platinum, Enrich Silver, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,496
On the same topic, can anybody explain to me, why LH zeros out D if Z and P are still wide open:
0 HAM
01/08/13 6:30 AM FRA
01/08/13 7:45 AM 321
M,T,W,Th,F,Sa
82% / 8m J9 C9 D0 Z9 P9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H0 G0 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 E0 L0 K0
S
0 HAM
01/08/13 6:30 AM FRA
01/08/13 7:45 AM 321
M,T,W,Th,F,Sa
82% / 8m J9 C9 D0 Z9 P9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H0 G0 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 E0 L0 K0
S
Jan 6, 2013, 1:07 am
#216
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Probably as you can't book this domestic trip in P and Z as such but only as a feeder flight to longhaul. D class however can be booked as a pure domestic segment - subject to availability.
Jan 6, 2013, 4:39 am
#217
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,671
HTB.
Jan 6, 2013, 7:21 am
#218
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: PMI
Programs: BA,LH,CX,EK SPG,IC mainly and a few others
Posts: 1,862
I tried to rebook a long haul flight for three pax four days before outbound- I had a D fare, the flight was showing J9 C0 D0 Z0 P6 I3!! They wanted fare diff between D and J, i asked them jokingly if they can downgrade us to P fare as the flight was showing P6 and more than 20 seats not were taken. Revenue management refused to clear the wait list, luckily the D fare was cancellable, so it was bye bye LH and 12000 EUR lost to them in this instance.
Jan 6, 2013, 9:04 am
#219
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DTW
Programs: DL Skymiles - Platinum
Posts: 520
That's easy. LH has started to define the seat-load-factor as a determining factor as to the profitability of a route. If they can't sell the seats with their current tactic, they'll reduce the number of seats (cancel flights, use smaller airplanes) thereby INCREASING the seat-load-factor. At this point they'll also drop the price again and fill the cabin, resulting in record highs for seat-load-factors. At the same time LH will realize that they don't make any profit. The reason for that is found quickly, however: costs are too high and need to be reduced.
HTB.
HTB.
Jan 6, 2013, 10:49 am
#220
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ZRH / MUC / VIE
Programs: M&M basic / happy Wizzair+ user :-)
Posts: 6,490
I CAN'T play it anymore.
It's not only that MUC-ZRH is rarely available below 800 EUR (it's up to me if I'm willing to pay this or not) - it's even worse, when you buy a ticket (even an expensive one) and get the information that you can rebook it for a specific fee.
And when you need to rebook it, you can pay the difference for the booking class + the communicated rebooking fee...
This turns every LH-booking into an imponderable risk, which is the biggest problem I have with this company. But it's a pretty serious one.
Other airlines play the game with advance-booking-fare rules, which is fair and calculable.
It's not only that MUC-ZRH is rarely available below 800 EUR (it's up to me if I'm willing to pay this or not) - it's even worse, when you buy a ticket (even an expensive one) and get the information that you can rebook it for a specific fee.
And when you need to rebook it, you can pay the difference for the booking class + the communicated rebooking fee...
This turns every LH-booking into an imponderable risk, which is the biggest problem I have with this company. But it's a pretty serious one.
Other airlines play the game with advance-booking-fare rules, which is fair and calculable.
Feb 1, 2013, 3:39 am
#221
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
Its seems 2012 was a good year for extracting yield. In this weeks Lufthanseat Spohr was all praise:
Code:
Carsten Spohr, Chief Officer Lufthansa German Airlines, VL, said the entire Sales division had succeeded very well in 2012 in achieving its “non-stop sales” objective, alluding to the motto of the Seeheim event. He also thanked everyone for a record sales performance, but admitted that in many ways 2012 had been an unrewarding year. “Never before has our Sales division generated more in terms of total revenue, or per available seat. But your outstanding performance was eroded by our high costs,” Spohr said.
Feb 1, 2013, 3:48 am
#222
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,069
Its seems 2012 was a good year for extracting yield. In this weeks Lufthanseat Spohr was all praise:
Code:
Carsten Spohr, Chief Officer Lufthansa German Airlines, VL, said the entire Sales division had succeeded very well in 2012 in achieving its “non-stop sales” objective, alluding to the motto of the Seeheim event. He also thanked everyone for a record sales performance, but admitted that in many ways 2012 had been an unrewarding year. “Never before has our Sales division generated more in terms of total revenue, or per available seat. But your outstanding performance was eroded by our high costs,” Spohr said.
That's what happens when you sell a lot of cheap seats to the " Nonstopyou " crowd with the cost structure of a mega airline . This can not be a big surprise
, could just have asked all the other megas who tried it.
Feb 1, 2013, 3:57 am
#223
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: TXL, ROC
Programs: AB Plat (OWE), AY Silver (OWR)
Posts: 472
Well, if total revenue per available seat was the best *ever* (!), there's probably no problem with cheap seats. And since it's become quite hard to find tickets for a domestic return for under EUR 200, I can see where the money is coming from... OTOH, fuel costs seem to have risen, too, which is probably what he is referring to. Or what other costs have risen so enormously?
Feb 1, 2013, 4:22 am
#224
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Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
Well, if total revenue per available seat was the best *ever* (!), there's probably no problem with cheap seats. And since it's become quite hard to find tickets for a domestic return for under EUR 200, I can see where the money is coming from... OTOH, fuel costs seem to have risen, too, which is probably what he is referring to. Or what other costs have risen so enormously?
If revenue per available seat mile is at a record high and sales revenue is at a record high while fixed costs were reduced (via SCORE and other initiatives)- operating margin would be higher- or am I missing something?