Jun 2, 2015, 1:43 pm
New First class retrofit thread
Oct 26, 2015, 3:13 am
#1861
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,634
IIRC, the seats were introduced beginning late 2011 as retrofits of the blue F seats that were introduced in 1998.. Pure stop-gap measure as the n F seat couldn't be fitted on the UD of the 744. Currently, 744 as well as 343 fleet is dispatched to routes where LH doesn't see enough F demand.
Oct 26, 2015, 4:24 am
#1862
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
How did Lufthansa justify the move to remove First from the 747 400 entirely? The seats were under a year old! Wouldn't they LOOSE money doing that?
[...]
Their ceo claimed to want to make DLH a 5 star airline. Did he expect to do that by removing the only good product they had (first) on nearly all their planes and also removing one of the worlds most innovative products (Seat+bed)? That cabin won the hearts of hundreds of travelers! Lufthansa have to be the cheapest airline rated 4 stars in my book!
[...]
Their ceo claimed to want to make DLH a 5 star airline. Did he expect to do that by removing the only good product they had (first) on nearly all their planes and also removing one of the worlds most innovative products (Seat+bed)? That cabin won the hearts of hundreds of travelers! Lufthansa have to be the cheapest airline rated 4 stars in my book!
It *seems* that Lufty on the one hand has realized the trends of smelting average revenues per seat mile and assumes that this trend couldn't be changed.
If I would have been in charge there I would have changed the 747-400 Upper Deck configuration slightly. I would have skipped only 4 seats and let the rows 81/82 untouched. That would have enabled my company to attract many frequent fliers during the year to fly the high-density layout "Business Class" in Europe (NEK) and then get the upselling by miles once a year.
Additional capacity would have been sold for discounted First Fares as it is done for all other routes where F remains.
BTW this also makes Lufty completely unattractive for First Class round the world tickets.
So my personal impression and point of view is that skipping First Class on any route is a strategic mistake. On routes with "low First" demand I would have deployed the A340/330 frame with one row of First and B747-400 wiht the F/J split upperdeck.
Oct 28, 2015, 9:31 pm
#1863
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,187
Nov 11, 2015, 10:04 pm
#1864
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 44
Lufthansa has in no means justified it. Honestly spoken I don't have the impression that there is any strategic behind the claim being a "five star" airline and the recent cost cuttings.
It *seems* that Lufty on the one hand has realized the trends of smelting average revenues per seat mile and assumes that this trend couldn't be changed.
If I would have been in charge there I would have changed the 747-400 Upper Deck configuration slightly. I would have skipped only 4 seats and let the rows 81/82 untouched. That would have enabled my company to attract many frequent fliers during the year to fly the high-density layout "Business Class" in Europe (NEK) and then get the upselling by miles once a year.
Additional capacity would have been sold for discounted First Fares as it is done for all other routes where F remains.
BTW this also makes Lufty completely unattractive for First Class round the world tickets.
So my personal impression and point of view is that skipping First Class on any route is a strategic mistake. On routes with "low First" demand I would have deployed the A340/330 frame with one row of First and B747-400 wiht the F/J split upperdeck.
It *seems* that Lufty on the one hand has realized the trends of smelting average revenues per seat mile and assumes that this trend couldn't be changed.
If I would have been in charge there I would have changed the 747-400 Upper Deck configuration slightly. I would have skipped only 4 seats and let the rows 81/82 untouched. That would have enabled my company to attract many frequent fliers during the year to fly the high-density layout "Business Class" in Europe (NEK) and then get the upselling by miles once a year.
Additional capacity would have been sold for discounted First Fares as it is done for all other routes where F remains.
BTW this also makes Lufty completely unattractive for First Class round the world tickets.
So my personal impression and point of view is that skipping First Class on any route is a strategic mistake. On routes with "low First" demand I would have deployed the A340/330 frame with one row of First and B747-400 wiht the F/J split upperdeck.
I agree!
Nov 12, 2015, 1:35 am
#1865
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,721
Apparently you need a minimum number of F seats to make it worthwhile (for F logistics and special services, dedicated FA, catering, opening about a dozen of expensive bottles etc.) and one row (4 seats) would not be enough. Hence 8 seats on all LH planes that have an F cabin.
Nov 12, 2015, 2:31 am
#1866
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: LH HON
Posts: 3,420
Apparently you need a minimum number of F seats to make it worthwhile (for F logistics and special services, dedicated FA, catering, opening about a dozen of expensive bottles etc.) and one row (4 seats) would not be enough. Hence 8 seats on all LH planes that have an F cabin.
Nov 17, 2015, 7:13 pm
#1867
Join Date: May 2014
Location: CMH, HNL
Programs: UA, HA
Posts: 583
Apparently you need a minimum number of F seats to make it worthwhile (for F logistics and special services, dedicated FA, catering, opening about a dozen of expensive bottles etc.) and one row (4 seats) would not be enough. Hence 8 seats on all LH planes that have an F cabin.
Jan 2, 2016, 3:58 pm
#1868
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,043
How many routes are selling F seats as J?
I was pleasantly surprised to fly FRA-DFW on a A333 on a J award ticket, only to find myself snagging an F seat (with J service). I double-checked my return flight in a few weeks and I'm also pre-assigned an F seat.
I was pleasantly surprised to fly FRA-DFW on a A333 on a J award ticket, only to find myself snagging an F seat (with J service). I double-checked my return flight in a few weeks and I'm also pre-assigned an F seat.
Jan 3, 2016, 6:34 am
#1869
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,721
I never said that 8 would be the exact minimum number for all airlines in the world. LH did the maths and 4 was not considered enough; as 8 seem to fit nicely in two rows on all of LH's widebodies, 8 was selected to be the standard F cabin on LH planes.