Enhancement: No more op-ups from cheaper fare buckets

Old Jun 5, 11, 3:43 pm
  #61  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Did somebody contact LH on Twitter / FB / Website Form to confirm this information or get a reaction? I think LH should know that some of the most frequent travelers out there have visibility to this and are not happy about it. To me, OpUps are the only real benefit being a SEN.

I will let them know that if this is true, I will also "enhance" my booking behavior and stop buying ridiculously priced (>$1,200) LH S,W and L tickets in the summer months and over Christmas.
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Old Jun 5, 11, 4:41 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by Lack View Post
Where did you got that idea? To LH right now you're just the fare you paid.
Exactly! I don't understand the big deal, they will still give op-ups to those who PAY MORE, which seems normal to me, even if I have historically flown more with them. And status will still play a role.

It's definitely in line with pay C/J fly F campaigns they've had. Most arguments on here really don't stand up: I fly really cheap fares often, adding little to the bottom line, therefore I'm valuable.

Maybe I just think too much in terms of UA GS, SQ PPS or Hilton base points qualification, aka revenue.
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Old Jun 5, 11, 7:26 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by dre_techie View Post
..Maybe I just think too much in terms of UA GS, SQ PPS or Hilton base points qualification, aka revenue.
As in offering next to nothing in exchange for tons of revenue?
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Old Jun 5, 11, 8:10 pm
  #64  
 
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LH is disappointing more and more. From BOS-MUC/FRA I had a pretty good chance for op-ups and as I have to book through company intranet/TA, I never get to choose the booking class. It is just cheapest economy (even have to write explanation why I want to use particular routing and not the suggest, and much cheaper, via RKV).

Probably someone at LH put a calculation together (as bean counters are running more and more companies) that the negative impact is much smaller then the potential award to bring in more new customers.

Anyway, sorry to see that one go too
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Old Jun 5, 11, 9:19 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by dre_techie View Post
Exactly! I don't understand the big deal, they will still give op-ups to those who PAY MORE, which seems normal to me, even if I have historically flown more with them. And status will still play a role.

It's definitely in line with pay C/J fly F campaigns they've had. Most arguments on here really don't stand up: I fly really cheap fares often, adding little to the bottom line, therefore I'm valuable.

Maybe I just think too much in terms of UA GS, SQ PPS or Hilton base points qualification, aka revenue.
So V is a really cheap economy fare, and Q is not?
As several people posted earlier, this is most likely not about revenue. It is not even a published change.
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Old Jun 5, 11, 10:06 pm
  #66  
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Q is usually 30-40EUR more expensive per leg than V which itself is 100 EUR more expnsive than the low fares. Some examples:

Code:
FQD MUCNYC /R,U/ALH/D27JUN                                                      
MORE FARES AVAIL IN USD                XF MAY APPLY                             
                                       3.48XA/4.87XY EXCLUDED                   
                                       OTHER TAX MAY APPLY                      
ROE 0.717968 UP TO 1.00 EUR            SURCHG MAY APPLY-CK RULE                 
27JUN11**27JUN11/LH MUCNYC/NSP;AT/TPM  4032/MPM  4838                           
***   FOR STAR ALLIANCE RTW* SEE FQD XYZXYZ EG:FRAFRA   ***                     
LN FARE BASIS    OW   EUR  RT   B PEN  DATES/DAYS   AP MIN MAXFR                
01 LNNZDEW                  186 L NRF S08JUN  30JUN+ 7+SU+  3MVR                
                                      B28JUN   -                                
02 SKNCDEW                  340 S NRF S27MAY  30JUN+ 7+SU+ 12MVR                
03 WKNCDEW                  400 W NRF S27MAY  30JUN+ 7+SU+ 12MVR                
04 VKRCDEW                  520 V  +  S27MAY  30JUN+ 4+SU+ 12MVR                
05 QKRCDEW                  600 Q  +  S27MAY  30JUN+ 1+SU+ 12MVR
Code:
01AUG11**01AUG11/LH NYCMUC/NSP;AT/TPM  4032/MPM  4838                           
LN FARE BASIS    OW   USD  RT   B PEN  DATES/DAYS   AP MIN MAX R                
                
25 ZNC2S                   1538 Z NRF S28JUN  02SEP+14+SU+  3M R                
                                      B29JUN F08SEP                             
26 HHW2RCE                 1460 H  +  S14MAY  27AUG+ 3+SU+  3M R                
27 HHX2RCE                 1400 H  +  S14MAY  27AUG+ 3+SU+  3M R                
28 QHW3RCE                 1260 Q  +  S14MAY  27AUG+ 3+SU+  3M R                
29 QHX3RCE                 1200 Q  +  S14MAY  27AUG+ 3+SU+  3M R                
30 VHW4NCE                 1100 V NRF S14MAY  27AUG+10+SU+  3M R                
31 VHX4NCE                 1040 V NRF S14MAY  27AUG+10+SU+  3M R                
32 WHW5NCE                  960 W NRF S14MAY  27AUG+14+SU+  3M R                
33 WHX5NCE                  900 W NRF S14MAY  27AUG+14+SU+  3M R                
34 SHW6NCE                  750 S NRF S14MAY  27AUG+14+SU+  3M R                
35 SHX6NCE                  700 S NRF S14MAY  27AUG+14+SU+  3M R
Code:
01OCT11**01OCT11/LH NYCMUC/NSP;AT/TPM  4032/MPM  4838                           
LN FARE BASIS    OW   USD  RT   B PEN  DATES/DAYS   AP MIN MAX R                

27 QKW3RCE                  785 Q  +  S28AUG  22OCT+ 3+SU+  3M R                
28 QKX3RCE                  725 Q  +  S28AUG  22OCT+ 3+SU+  3M R                
29 VKW4NCE                  665 V NRF S28AUG  22OCT+10+SU+  3M R                
30 VKX4NCE                  605 V NRF S28AUG  22OCT+10+SU+  3M R                
31 WKW5NCE                  565 W NRF S28AUG  22OCT+14+SU+  3M R                
32 WKX5NCE                  505 W NRF S28AUG  22OCT+14+SU+  3M R                
33 WKW6NCE                  460 W NRF S28AUG  22OCT+14+SU+  3M R                
34 WKX6NCE                  400 W NRF S28AUG  22OCT+14+SU+  3M R
The point of the 6 lower bargain fares is to spread the 300$/EUR jump from bargain to mid level fares more easily, so if the lowest fare bucket is no longer available, the fare jumps by 50-100$/EUR, not 2-300.

I book my V fares ex-Germany via Tourop fares which are about 10-20% cheaper than published V fares. These are also available as Q or H against an upsell.
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Old Jun 5, 11, 11:01 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by BikeHelmet View Post
So V is a really cheap economy fare, and Q is not?
As several people posted earlier, this is most likely not about revenue. It is not even a published change.
Of course it's all about revenue: You wanna give those who cough up higher fares a nicer experience on LH and that includes upgrades. If you don't have status but book an ueber-expensive Y ticket last minute and get an upgrade: Are you likely to pick LH again if you have to book such a ticket?
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Old Jun 5, 11, 11:30 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by SMK77 View Post
Of course it's all about revenue: You wanna give those who cough up higher fares a nicer experience on LH and that includes upgrades. If you don't have status but book an ueber-expensive Y ticket last minute and get an upgrade: Are you likely to pick LH again if you have to book such a ticket?
So the (small?) chance that some *G who has booked a Q-class ticket will fly LH again (in Q?) is worth more to them than all the V-class tickets I've booked and would continue to book? They're willing to risk what has been demonstrated revenue stream (even if "small" by others' standards) for the *chance* that the *G will switch to LH? If they value my business so little, then I guess I should explore other options.
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Old Jun 5, 11, 11:47 pm
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by SMK77 View Post
Of course it's all about revenue: You wanna give those who cough up higher fares a nicer experience on LH and that includes upgrades. If you don't have status but book an ueber-expensive Y ticket last minute and get an upgrade: Are you likely to pick LH again if you have to book such a ticket?
Q is not ueber-expensive, especially not compared to V. Is the (certainly very low ) increase of the returning probability for a Q fare *G passenger worth taking away a benefit from loyal Eco-SENs flying on a hardly less expensive V fare? And don't you risk losing revenue if these (likely returning) SENs fly L/W/S instead of V in the future?
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Old Jun 6, 11, 1:02 am
  #70  
 
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I'm happy

Agree with all this is a strange call by LH, but I'm a *G living in Germany with UA status. Never got an opup, but this change could be good seeing as I usually fly full fare Y refundable tickets?
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Old Jun 6, 11, 2:29 am
  #71  
 
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Before crying too much, I suggest to look at the perceived reality in a couple of months from now and discuss whether we will in deed experience a difference.
It remains to be seen, to what degree the FM's go strictly by the grading list or continue to grade LH status customers beforehand regardless.
There is probably also insufficient insight on this board what other factors impact the grading list and to what degree RM is manually pre-sorting the grading list days before the flight.

The other thing is, as Rambuster said, opup experience was overhyped during the economic crisis and some people might have become addicted to that experience, but are probably more and more doomed for disappointment.

I personally don't feel comfortable betting on opups if I really want to fly C instead of Y. On recent TATL bookings (not NYC though...) I had the opposite experience that even a confirmed M&M instrument upgrade was impossible due to overbooked C and this on alternate routings and in a couple of days in a row!

Opup chances nowadays are only safe on routes with weak C and heavily oversold Y booking situation. Y classes zeroed out on FlightStats or EF is not always an indicator that OpUps are going to happen.
I did gamble on an OpUp on a Q fare last year on a Y0 TATL flight, yet the FM insisted at the gate that she will only upgrade against miles, as Y was JUST completely full but did not run over. So in cases like this I am happier burning my miles for a confirmed upgrade beforehand with better chance of grabbing a convertible C seat!

What I find annoying also is, when on heavily overbooked flights they do the grading in the hour before departure of the long haul at FRA, while they let you check in for the connecting flight in MUC and offer you the upgrade for miles, even on the most expensive Y-fare (in a case where confirmed upgrade was impossible beforehand). Then when you arrive at the gate you see BPs for blue members getting upgraded.

Then again, LH is enhancing such routes with weak C and overbooked Y such as MUC-CAI by replacing the combi BBJ with a NEK'ed [email protected]:-)
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Old Jun 6, 11, 4:06 am
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Red BP View Post
...
There is probably also insufficient insight on this board what other factors impact the grading list and to what degree RM is manually pre-sorting the grading list days before the flight.


...

What I find annoying also is, when on heavily overbooked flights they do the grading in the hour before departure of the long haul at FRA, while they let you check in for the connecting flight in MUC and offer you the upgrade for miles, even on the most expensive Y-fare (in a case where confirmed upgrade was impossible beforehand). Then when you arrive at the gate you see BPs for blue members getting upgraded.
The FM usually only touches the flight at the beginning of his/her shift, ie a maximum 4-6h in advance. If the flight is badly oversold, some grading happens in advance, the rest if left till the end as no-shows or misconnects save the day for the FM and their team. In the heat of the moment this grading at the gate may not occur as per 'the list' because of various reasons (no time to walk into the aircraft and reseat pax, elites travelling with families etc). These are documented however, so that an audit can check up on the performance of the FM or if a HON/SEN complaint is verified.

FMs and DSTs will get into disciplinary problems if the record of complaints regarding their behaviour towards elites increases.
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Old Jun 6, 11, 5:19 am
  #73  
 
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[/QUOTE]
FMs and DSTs will get into disciplinary problems if the record of complaints regarding their behaviour towards elites increases.[/QUOTE]

Oliver, I agree, this is also my experience....

Amateur question: who is the DST?
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Old Jun 6, 11, 6:09 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
Q is usually 30-40EUR more expensive per leg than V which itself is 100 EUR more expnsive than the low fares. Some examples:
Keep in mind, that the more you pay for the fare, the more fuel the plane burns somehow and the YQ also jumps.

Originally Posted by volta View Post
LH is disappointing more and more. From BOS-MUC/FRA I had a pretty good chance for op-ups and as I have to book through company intranet/TA, I never get to choose the booking class. It is just cheapest economy (even have to write explanation why I want to use particular routing and not the suggest, and much cheaper, via RKV).
Over the last two years I've had zero op-ups on this route, but I was traveling incognito (*G) and usually the load was pretty low in eco, a couple times I even had a whole row for myself to stretch out.
Not counting the stupid A346 seat block and apron position for widebodiese, those 7h hops are perfectly survivable in Y, especially for 500 USD RT and 200% miles credit elsewhere.
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Old Jun 6, 11, 7:18 am
  #75  
 
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If this is true, and applied as per its intent on LX, it would have a significant negative impact on me. I usually travel on the YUL-ZRH route around Xmas and summer holidays, and routinely do get upgraded as there is always lots of leisure Y pax and no business traffic on these dates.

The almost certain upgrade so far was my deciding factor to pay more for an LX ticket than, say, a connection on AC / CO / LH.
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