Enhancement: No more op-ups from cheaper fare buckets

Reply

Old Jun 4, 11, 9:19 am
  #31  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GVA
Programs: LX SEN
Posts: 462
Originally Posted by saviox View Post

Normally Q is 40/50% more expensive than V. I would not pay this amount for a chance(small) of being op-uped.
Q fares are typically not so much more expensive. Just checked for FRA-JFK in Oct on LH: V-fare (VKRCDEW): 550 EUR vs Q-fare (QKRCDEW): 630 EUR
For GVA-JFK on LX in Oct, the difference is bigger: V-fare (VICSGL): 554 EUR vs Q-fare (QICSGL): 664 EUR
All fares without taxes/charges
Viennafly is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 11:50 am
  #32  
Moderator: Le Club Accorhotels
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 11,421
Originally Posted by Viennafly View Post
Q fares are typically not so much more expensive. Just checked for FRA-JFK in Oct on LH: V-fare (VKRCDEW): 550 EUR vs Q-fare (QKRCDEW): 630 EUR
For GVA-JFK on LX in Oct, the difference is bigger: V-fare (VICSGL): 554 EUR vs Q-fare (QICSGL): 664 EUR
All fares without taxes/charges
Thanks for the data. Taxes and surcharges are around 300€, so we´re talking about 850€-950€ for a ticket to the east coast during off-season. That´s about twice as much as the cheapest available ticket available on LH/UA/CO/AC.

Of course there are people who have to buy tix at the last minute etc., but I do wonder how many people voluntarily pay 2x the cheapest fare just to earn 100% miles and be able to upgrade (which generally isn´t a good deal either)?
Jasper2009 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 11:57 am
  #33  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: LH SEN, SPG Gold, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,020
Originally Posted by Jasper2009 View Post
Thanks for the data. Taxes and surcharges are around 300€, so we´re talking about 850€-950€ for a ticket to the east coast during off-season. That´s about twice as much as the cheapest available ticket available on LH/UA/CO/AC.

Of course there are people who have to buy tix at the last minute etc., but I do wonder how many people voluntarily pay 2x the cheapest fare just to earn 100% miles and be able to upgrade (which generally isn´t a good deal either)?
That's a gross misrepresentation of the difference between the fares. Flexibility, or lack thereof comes to mind, 100% mileage is second, but this is FT, so I'm probably wrong...
dre_techie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 12:06 pm
  #34  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GVA
Programs: LX SEN
Posts: 462
Originally Posted by Jasper2009 View Post
Thanks for the data. Taxes and surcharges are around 300€, so we´re talking about 850€-950€ for a ticket to the east coast during off-season. That´s about twice as much as the cheapest available ticket available on LH/UA/CO/AC.

Of course there are people who have to buy tix at the last minute etc., but I do wonder how many people voluntarily pay 2x the cheapest fare just to earn 100% miles and be able to upgrade (which generally isn´t a good deal either)?
You are right about that the V-fare much more expensive than the cheapest available fare; although the difference is less than 2x. The cheapest fare for FRA-JFK on LH is LNNZDEW, which is 216 EUR, with taxes etc, this is ~516 EUR vs 850 EUR for the V fare. In most cases (and I book intercontinental trips usually 2-3 months in advance), L or S fares are mostly not available. The cheapest fare then is often a W fare, which (staying with the FRA-JFK example) is only 80 EUR cheaper than the V fare (i.e. ~10%). Paying 80 EUR more is an acceptable amount to get 100% miles and the chance to upgrade with miles/evouchers (and for me necessary to keep my status).
Viennafly is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 12:09 pm
  #35  
Moderator: Le Club Accorhotels
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 11,421
Originally Posted by dre_techie View Post
That's a gross misrepresentation of the difference between the fares. Flexibility, or lack thereof comes to mind, 100% mileage is second, but this is FT, so I'm probably wrong...
You´re right. Flexibility also is a factor taken into account by some pax, but last time I checked V/Q fares weren´t that flexible either, and the lower booking classes are often more flexible on LH´s partners than on LH.

I recently booked a 380€ a.i. fare to the East Coast on AC in the lowest booking class and the entire ticket price (minus 100€) could have been used as credit for a future flight if I had decided to cancel the ticket, that´s flexible enough for my purposes (not to mention I earnt 100% miles and was able to upgrade the flight)

LH/M&M isn´t all bad and there are many good policies IMO, but the latest enhancement do make me wonder every now and then.
Jasper2009 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 12:09 pm
  #36  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GVA
Programs: LX SEN
Posts: 462
Originally Posted by dre_techie View Post
That's a gross misrepresentation of the difference between the fares. Flexibility, or lack thereof comes to mind, 100% mileage is second, but this is FT, so I'm probably wrong...
Important point! We also should not forget that you can cancel and rebook a V fare (against a fee), most of the cheaper fares you can not.
Viennafly is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 12:22 pm
  #37  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,844
Originally Posted by Viennafly View Post
Important point! We also should not forget that you can cancel and rebook a V fare (against a fee), most of the cheaper fares you can not.
S and W fares are also changeable (not cancel though). It's about 200 EUR difference between S and V to the east coast from my country. Add another 100 EUR for Q.
L promo fares drop to as low as 400 EUR all in, so even a forfeit on one is about 300 EUR loss (ie net loss of 100 EUR against canceling V fare). As my travel is pretty much fixed, I don't mind taking a gamble to save 400 EUR on each trip.

With LX the price difference isn't that step, but sadly they don't serve my city.
Lack is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 7:22 pm
  #38  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 2,865
One has to keep in mind that most people will still buy V fares as they give 100% miles and they can use upgrade instruments. There will be no official information though that V is no longer on the grading list - meaning that a lot of people will hope for the best when they go to the airport but will still be disappointed...
SMK77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 9:25 pm
  #39  
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Aman Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF SG, LH SEN, OZ D+, HH D, SPG P
Posts: 13,923
Originally Posted by SMK77 View Post
One has to keep in mind that most people will still buy V fares as they give 100% miles and they can use upgrade instruments. There will be no official information though that V is no longer on the grading list - meaning that a lot of people will hope for the best when they go to the airport but will still be disappointed...
I think it would be foolish to go to the airport with hopes of an (op) upgrade. One will surely be disappointed in way too many cases.
DownUnderFlyer is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 11, 10:55 pm
  #40  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Programs: LH Gold, KL Plat, BA Gold
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by SMK77 View Post
There will be no official information though that V is no longer on the grading list - meaning that a lot of people will hope for the best when they go to the airport but will still be disappointed...
This is a very good point. Presumably LH did this to encourage sales of higher fare tickets, but if they do not publicise this rule then how are people to know that the cheapest tickets will not lead to any op-up. How would you know that you didn't get chosen because of your cheap ticket and not because of pax with higher status (or even low number of op-ups on any particular flight).
riku2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 11, 12:07 am
  #41  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 36,555
This thread is amusing... everyone normally keeps repeating that they are SEN for x years and never got an op up / seat blocking etc. Now that a non documented benefit seemingly goes away there is an outcry.

Be that as it may be, in oversold situations FMs are supposed to take the list as a guideline. How the list is used differs on the situation. In our Q&A session with the FM in MUC last summer she gave us some insight which matched some observations we had made.
oliver2002 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 11, 12:17 am
  #42  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, CX DIA, EK Gold
Posts: 14,498
At the hight of the financial crisis, when LH was overselling Y like there will be no tomorrow, I got plenty of op-ups.
This has now dried out completely... It was nice while it lasted!
Rambuster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 11, 12:50 am
  #43  
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz, and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 26,773
Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
This thread is amusing...
+1

How can we expect LH to publicise changes to something that has never been published to the general public?
NewbieRunner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 11, 1:28 am
  #44  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NYC, CGN
Programs: LH-SEN
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
This thread is amusing... everyone normally keeps repeating that they are SEN for x years and never got an op up / seat blocking etc. Now that a non documented benefit seemingly goes away there is an outcry.
Well in my case I've been pretty clear about my op-up rate. Probably specific to JFK-FRA. I realize I'm in a small minority of people who will be strongly affected by this change, and that LH doesn't give a s**t.

Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
Be that as it may be, in oversold situations FMs are supposed to take the list as a guideline. How the list is used differs on the situation. In our Q&A session with the FM in MUC last summer she gave us some insight which matched some observations we had made.
Which were?
econprof is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 11, 1:35 am
  #45  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NYC, CGN
Programs: LH-SEN
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by riku2 View Post
This is a very good point. Presumably LH did this to encourage sales of higher fare tickets, but if they do not publicise this rule then how are people to know that the cheapest tickets will not lead to any op-up. How would you know that you didn't get chosen because of your cheap ticket and not because of pax with higher status (or even low number of op-ups on any particular flight).
Actually, I'd be surprised if they think many people are going to substitute from V to Q to have a chance at op-ups.

Rather, I'm guessing that they're hoping to lure some new business from *Gs, by letting them see what C/F is like. So somebody who's just purchased a EUR 1000 ticket, potentially for the first time on LH, will be opped-up over someone like me, who usually purchases V or lower, but drops easily EUR 20K a year on LH tickets.

Nice.
econprof is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread