VictorXray

Hi All,

just landed after 22+ hour flights and connections. if you think our second day was easy....guess again we spent 2.5 (!) hours at check in desk!!! no words... people beyond unprofessional.... that could NOT be Lufthansa...

I will write a detailed update after I get some sleep....
What an adventure! Will NOT set my foot to Venezuela again! Ever!

VictorXray

Would you kindly REFRAIN from playing a judge here ......

Good day

vbroucek

I was not the only one who "picked up" on OP. Hence I would appreciate if OP either attacked all or none. If OP has problem with my posts specifically, perhaps OP should follow his own advice and PM me, instead of calling my name repeatedly.

VictorXray

Hello,

Well, after the very long flight and very long sleep, I can now put the story in much clearer perspective. So, let's try with the "clean slate" sort of speaking.

* First, I'd like to clarify here, that in this story, events that are described, simply as they unfolded. In neither posts, I have EVER said, that so and so was wrong or so and so was right. Therefore, let's try to be REASONABLE and objective here. This post is about what happened to me/us in CCS and a simple warning to people, who may end up in my shoes. Of course all reasonable and non judgmental comments are welcome

PRELUDE

This event takes place in Caracas (CCS), Venezuela, on Feb.6th 2011.
2 persons, a well traveled couple with nice manners.

After checking in the night before, I confirmed the seats and closed the computer. There was no need to print our BP due to a lack of printer.

ACT I

(First 10 minutes)

We arrived to the front doors of the airport around 16:00-16:05. Within one (!) minute I have my bag being wrapped in plastic film and the guy who runs the machine asks me "what airline" we are flying. Up on saying Lufthansa, he says "no, no, fermato, close, close". Thinking, I know better, I smile and say "ok, ok, gracias".

The next minute we are walking towards CI counter. I look around, there is no LH in sight. I go to Copa Air desk and ask for LH, they waive in forward direction. We move forward, look around, there is not a single sign. I see an AF counter, approach and ask where is LH CI. He waives across but say, that the CI is closed. At this point, I check my watch, check time in my mobile and walk to the third counter, asking the same thing. The answer is " they closed and left".

Now, getting a straaaaaaange feeling in my gut, I'm trying to find the LH office. People at the counter tell me it's downstairs. However, no one can really explain exactly where to go and how to get to the underground floor. Very bad english (please, I am not trying to offend people of CCS but at THAT particular moment, every person I asked, could only say limited phrases like "down", "there", "go", "elevator", "right" and so on. I'm saying this only explain minute by minute the chain of events). Ok….time to run….


(Second 10 minutes)

I RUN, no, I even sprint! With in 3 to 4 minutes, running in the underground corridors of the real bunker, like a mice in the maze, I find the LH door. Pushing the door, the door is closed. I'm knocking, knocking…nothing for 15-20 sec. Then, small PA speaker, in breaking up voice, is trying to tell me something I can not understand.

I'm keep saying we can't find LH CI counter, what is going on?? The speaker tells me this: "We are closed for today"! At this point I realize, that the staff is actually inside the room and they just don't want to open the door. I'm knocking and knocking (NOT banging, just knocking and trying to tell them something). Finally door opens and I walk inside, where I find 3 LH uniformed personnel and 3 other uniformed people (later I saw them do "pre-check" for the "pre-security" check to the luggage). At this point, another 6 or 7 minutes go by.

In a very calm manner (I understand, something is wrong and CI is closed, so I will not be rude or even pushy to people, on whom my "fate" depends on. Just want to clarify that), I tell the woman who just informed me that CI is closing 120 minutes prior to departure, that we have already checked in, show her SEN card and FTL card of my fiance. She says it is too late. She points to the wall clock, that READS: 16:19 or :20 or 16:21 (the clock is small).

My biggest mistake was not to take a picture of the clock with my phone. But at this moment, you don't really think about it

(Third 10 minutes)

We have another 2 minutes conversation, where she tells me, that she "just" came back and "just" walked in the room (while seating and working on the stack of papers). I ask her to call the station manager "please". She goes on the walk talkie, speaks in spanish, I understand "pasjeros" "uno senator", "uno ftl"….. Short conversation continues…. She replies: "The answer is NO" - "The manager is already at the gate and she is busy". She tries to forward me to another man (cashier), who seats quietly, doing his things…

Still trying to talk to the woman, I ask her to check our bags as a "late luggage" and send it with the next flight or even next week if she wants to (not sure if it's possible though). And we already checked in, I say. She replies, that it is not possible and that on the boarding pass it is written that the cut off time is 120 min.

Anyway, after her long story about 5 check points for luggage due to the narcotics problem (all true actually), I ask again to call the station manager. The reply is "no", this time in english…
After 15 or so minutes, I am passed to the cashier, who books us on the same flight, next day with $590 USD fee…

INTERMISSION

I tried to explain, that I don't have actual BPs, since I have no printer and I didn't even see them… Yes, it is TRUE, yes, it is written that 120min, is a cut off time. They have sample of BP printed in Spanish (!) at the CIC only at the check in! But after they finish, they clear EVERYTHING! There is only grey, cement counters standing…nothing else….



part II
(if you are still awake)

This part of the story, is about LH personnel, except, I believe, that "our" Lufthansa here, in Europe, doesn't even know what is happening there.

ACT II
We arrive the next day, 4(!) hours and 40 minutes before the flight.
There is no line, but when you start walking to the CI counter, you are immediately approached by the army personnel, who asks for your passport and randomly checks bags by hand. So, it's kind of like pre-screening talk with security in Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion. Except, the sergeant speaks no words of english (or pretends to). I think, it is more of a psychological test how will you behave.

When we finally get to the CI counter, "originally nice" lady just smiles and tries to be nice. In fact, they all smile, speak mediocre english and take their time. I tried to speak german at one point, but to them, it's like japanese.

She tries to check us in, but ticket numbers are different of course, we explain, that we were rebooked, she says ok and walks back and forth to the cashier guy, who apparently the only one who knows how to work the system. It takes OVER an hour. Due to some other pax that are needed to be rebooked, pay fees, etc, etc and they all in front of us, waiting for one guy, even though, there are empty counters (but again, we have only "one guy who knows").

We spent over one (!) hour to correct the ticket numbers, so the lady can start issuing us BPs. (btw, we are en route CCS-FRA-MUC-LED). After we are finally allowed to put the luggage on the scales, we have 3 pieces between two of us. (25.2kg, 11kg & 32.2kg) However, one piece is 32kg (two bags inside each other but the main bag is wrapped in plastic already). She doesn't even sure if it's correct for Y or not, but goes away and spends 10 min looking at something, talking, etc. After I approach her, we have this long discussion about the weight. I told her, that I Do understand and I know I can take 23+23+23 (they didn't even knew the 3 piece concept for SENs and had to look for paper) but there is only one bag to my name…. Maybe? Please? Nothing works… fine. I open the bag and remove the wooden sculpture (9,8kg). You'd think, everyone would be happy. Not so fast fellas…. Not so fast…..

The sculpture is DOUBLE wrapped in heavy duty plastic and sealed! But for that lady it is not enough! She says, that THEY will try to find a box for us. Ok…We will wait…. After the box is found, it is too small (top is sticking out). At this point she delivers: …ready? "I can not accept it like that and I will not accept it like that".

We also say, that we are would be fine with the bar code sticker simply to be attached to the plastic (like it is ALWAYS attached everywhere in the WORLD by Lufthansa and other airlines). Her reply, is that she can not attach sticker directly to the plastic.

We trying VERY softly AND politely to argue the point, that the SAME sculpture flown with us from the next counter of Copa Airlines, 20 days ago, FROM CCS to Panama! She digests the info and replies that Panama IS different! But can not explain how different and why… I also fail to understand how the same person, national of Venezuela, working in CCS airport, DOES accept the same bag in one counter and NOT accepting it in the other!? We reach the same point in the same story…We ask to call the manager…conversation in spanish…phone call…the answer…. The answer is "No".

But then, goes another punchline: "The lady" says: "Go and wrap it IN PLASTIC"!

I do not believe my ears…. "m'am, I say, the sculpture IS wrapped in double layer of heavy duty plastic sheeting"! Blank stare at us…. She can NOT argumentatively explain to us, WHY we need to wrap it in plastic again… She even called the narcotics army guy to come over (to scare me, I guess) and told him something in spanish. And the guy was just staring at me and had no idea what to do. But it worked Boiling inside myself, using the darkest depths of my vocabulary, I ran to the packing guys, wrap it up and bring it to her, where she is readily plasters the sticker ON the plastic and hit few times with the stapler! I have no explanation to that….

ACT III

Now, the grand finale…. "The 3rd bag" Act. It (the bag) registers on the scale as 25.2 kilo. She goes with the same: "overweight" "take something out" (but the bag is wrapped (!) ). We starting to loose it… ALL those times, the next CI counter was accepting people with overweighted bags 28, 28.8, 26.5 kilos and so on. We saw it, because we were bored and waited for her to fix our tix.

My fiance is about to scream (the most quiet girl I ever met). We take the bag off the scale, scale reads 0.4kg. I request to "zero" the scale, we have 24.8 now. And no one from the LH staff is doing anything, they ALL stay next to the counter and watch! Like it's a circus or a soap opera. The people, who had enough of it, were actually baggage loaders. The guys just came, took the bag without paying attention to her and put on the belt….

At this point, they start to prepare to close CI desks, even though, it is still 30min to deadline. I ask why they are closing, they explain, that everyone is checked in already! So, IF every one is checked in, there is no need to wait right? Do they ever thought, that someone may come in and buy the ticket?? But the best part, is when we were standing at the CI counter in the beginning, I was asking about closing times, the name of the station manager and other details, she told us, that sometimes, when every one is checked in, they close EARLY and go home!! I swear! I have a witness. And when I was telling her about the 120min and 90min for F/C pax rule, she did NOT even understand what I was talking about. That is when she told me about closing early sometimes.

CURTAINS DROP.

The EPILOGUE

Again, I'd like to clarify, that we WERE technically late by 10 to 15 minutes. And "technically" they could not accept us… but: THERE MUST BE "SENSE of REASON" in this world! I understand that.

I am NOT asking for compassion here and I'm not asking for anything, that is "over the line". But I am asking for a normal human reasonable behavior, no matter if I'm SEN or FTL or HON or not even a member of *A. I believe, that any passenger who is flying across the continent home, should have been assisted in this case.

There is no black or white to this story. There are many shades of grey in between. And most of us know that. Because when it happens to us in one form or the other, we are defending our actions, but we forget sometimes to place ourselves in other people's shoes. I tried to be that manager on that day, but I could NOT "fit the shoes", because I would have helped the passengers.

And again, I'm not blaming Lufthansa. I had 56 flights last year, 99% with LH and LX and 99% it was a VERY pleasant experience! And most of the time LH staff, even goes out of their way to help you. I truly believe, that LH just doesn't know what is happening in CCS.

And if we start using the privileges here, let me assure you people, it does NOT matter to them (in CCS) if you are blue, or HON or any status. Sure, they went through the LH seminar, and they know the colors of cards and have baggage sheet printouts but it's the MENTALITY there, and the country is stuck in the early 80's, Soviet Union type system. Trust me, I've lived through that! I DO KNOW… LH needs to do something about it, because my next flight to the region will be via Panama and unfortunately, LH doesn't fly there.

I spoke with with LH staff on the plane and they told us, that they already know those stories about CCS, so we are not the only ones. And btw, the LH guys on the plane were like angels in comparison! We were ready to kiss all of them!
-----------------------------------------------

To summarize this, here a dry facts:

1. We arrived at 16:00 - 16:05 (let's even assume 16:10) still, the counter was COMPLETELY EMPTY, no signs, no people, all cleaned up!

2. We used the ORIGINAL eTix paper I got in email when I bough tickets. It does NOT say ANYTHING about CCS cut off time. It ONLY says, that LH recommends to arrive to LED (!) i.e. St.Petersburg 2 hours before departure (arrive to the airport, that is). Nothing about CCS.

3. Yes, I have found another email (after what happened), that came day prior to CCS departure and it DOES say in the very fine print about 120min cut off time. But we must assume, that the person is traveling without access to internet and computer. Not everyone in the Amazon forests checks email everyday. So, I have my original printout with no info about that rule (can email up on request).

4. Even I didn't know about 90min rule for F/C pax until I read your comments that night. So, I never asked (and they never offered). But that means, IF it's true, then we DID have a right to check our bags! No? In that case, by checking in on line, I did more damage (unknowingly) to myself, because as we found out, when everyone is checked in, they close EARLY!

5. They have a sample of BP in SPANISH about 120 min cut off, but WHY would you need to see it when you are checking IN to depart??? (have pictures can email if needed).

6. I already forgot what I was about to write…..

I'd like to THANK you for your time reading this (if you have managed to reach the end of my mumbles). I told you my story, I expressed my feelings. Sorry, If I have offended someone (just in case).

Until then, I remain,
Your's

V.Pliner

p.s. people, who know my posts can tell that I am very honest in what I write. I don't hide facts, nor I hide my faults. I'm a big boy, I can admit my faults and my own mistakes and I can write about it. Each of judge things to our own standards and personal level of acceptability of definitions "good" and "bad"…. Thank you.

p.p.s. And what was my fiance doing while I was running around, looking for LH office in the bunker? The poor girl was standing with all the bags, in the middle of the floor, surrounded half way by the grim looking army guys staring at her 2 meters away!

ParisMoskau

Sounds nightmarish

In the other thread, nobody really answered the question if by Lufthansa rules a SEN traveling in Y but entitled to use the F/C checkin counter also benefits from the later F/C cutoff times.

If yes, you should have been able to check in until 16:20 for the 17:50 departure, and certainly Lufthansa should (at least) refund the change fees.

rotanes

You have my true sympathy, this is a real nightmare. At all other places in the world, they would have checked in your luggage, but from a pure legal standpoint they might be right.

Lets take it as a “lessons learned” for future passengers in CCS:
Do not miss the “baggage drop-off time” printed on your boarding pass by 10 minutes, especially if you have overweight baggage, which needs special handling.

demue

I think you should still send the overall documentation of your experience to LH and see what happens. Don't ask for refunds or compensation, admit your oversights, but still ask if this is really all that could have been done in this situation by CCS staff and if this fits with LHs desired service standards. I mean there is one flight a day and the station manager could at least have spent 5mins looking into your situation and maybe explained in german or better english the situation clearly.

BTW, I think you mentioned that Station Mgr is a 'she'? When I flew in and out of CCS in 2008 it was a gentleman in his 50ties maybe and he was very attenative in general. I remember him at least taking extremly good care of an HON who was in C (back then they used 2-class A343 for that route on my flights). Okay they seemed to know each other personally, but overall he seemed to be on top of the operations. He talked to the 3 or so odd SENs on the flight when we passed through the security check at the gate before boarding and wished us a pleasant flight.

alex0683de

I agree with demue. Send LH a letter - an actual letter, not an e-mail - where you simply set out all the facts of what happened. Don't ask for anything, just send it as a "FYI - I think you should know what goes on there". I would also mention what the website says should happen and what the actual modus operandi is at CCS.

With a bit of luck LH will try to sort out their airport staff. And perhaps they'll send you something for your trouble.

AHN

Very well put and an excellent way of phrasing it.

weero

And what would the underpayed Bangalore letter-reader and professional apologist do with such an oeuvre? Look up what CCS means what Venezuela is and then push the "so sorry that you expected too much of us" button? Or tersely and honestly answer "yes!"?

VictorXray

Yes, would some one tell us about 90 min rule. I can't find it either, but I trust that some fellow FTers, are know better

I will send the letter to LH. I did sent it via email already but since you are limited in space, the story was much shorter. I did not ask for anything, except one thing: Please check CCS and do something about.

If someone can recommend me what address I should mail the letter to, I'd appreciate it. Should it be to customer relations or to the "big man" himself?

Thank you

Jasper2009

Indeed sounds like a nightmare.

I assume you were travelling in Y? (I couldnīt find any mention of it in your posts) If so, Iīd get in touch with LH in Germany and ask the following question: "Are SENs entitled to all the same benefits as C/F passengers at check-in incl. baggage drop off times?"

If the answer is "no" (and you may want to try asking several agents), send them a letter with the facts without asking for any compensation. Regardless of whoīs right LH should be made aware of the situation.

If the answer is "yes", note down the name and location of the agent (you may want to try to talk to a supervisor, the SEN line etc.) and send them a letter asking for
a) refund of rebooking fee, b) refund of extra cost of accomodation, c) IDB compensation x2
This may sound a little aggressive (and itīs not for everyone), but if indeed you were wrongly denied the right to drop off your baggage, LH should be liable and take care of this. Also LH will only ever improve the situation at stations like CCS if enough SENs/HONs complain and if the behaviour of the CCS staff costs LH real money.

denhaagflyer

I remember many years ago, I arrived at GIG 35 minutes before the departure of my UA flight to MIA. They were shutting down the CI, but took me to the office to check me in (well, I had a C-ticket and F-reservation, corporate upgrade, this might have made it easier). They then took me personally through passport and security and I was one of the last people to board. And UA is not exactly known for its customer friendliness. So, it is possible to treat people in a nice way even if they are late!

Whatever the formal rules are, I find the behavior of the CI agents in CCS unacceptable and would bitterly complain. Given your description, they probably left well before the 120 minute cut-off!

Concerning the use of the C/F CI rule for Senators, this seems a grey area. After all, we are entitled to F check in, why would that not include the cut-off?

8420PR

The online database on LH.co.uk has changed in the past 6 months - it used to differentiate between cabins for check in deadlines, but now shows one single [shorter] deadline for all customers.
For example, FRA was 40 min for economy and 30 min for business & first. It is now 30 minutes "bag drop off" for all customers.

CCS is shown as a 120 minute deadline for all customers.

rotanes

I cannot verify this. For me it shows a
- 120 min deadline for online checkin;
- 120 min deadline for economy checkinat the counter and for baggage-dropoff
- 90 min deadline for first/business checkin at the counter and for baggage-dropoff