Questions for official LH lurker, LHconnect (LHrelate v2.0)
Dec 13, 2010, 5:09 am
#47
Join Date: Jun 2003
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While I agree with you that LHconnect has to look into this ASAP, and LH has either to come around with a workable solution giving everyone enough notice for everyone to apply or back down on this which would be make the most sense imo... (since the certs have gotten to be requested by the 1K member, thus authorizing the transfer, and it's been working this way for the last 6 years or more )
I am also really impatient for her to reply but you have to give her that it's only 7:00 am monday on the east coast right now, and I don't expect her to work on the wekeend. She is not Michelle! But it would have been appreciated to have a posting on friday, at least to say that she is looking further into this and will fix this problem within the next couple of days.
I am also really impatient for her to reply but you have to give her that it's only 7:00 am monday on the east coast right now, and I don't expect her to work on the wekeend. She is not Michelle! But it would have been appreciated to have a posting on friday, at least to say that she is looking further into this and will fix this problem within the next couple of days.
Dec 13, 2010, 6:30 am
#48
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SZG
Posts: 3,936
sorry to say, but that's been pretty obvious unfortunately...
100% agree...
100% agree...
Dec 13, 2010, 8:24 am
#49
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: Disgruntled HON**, Indifferent EK Gold, skeptical BA Silver
Posts: 1,734
Dec 13, 2010, 1:32 pm
#51
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
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Michelle was incredible especially during the ash cloud chaos when she worked day and night to help FTers stranded throughout the world or anxious to find alternative flights to their destination.
But let's give our new Lurker, Alison, a chance to find a satisfactory answer to this very complex question. It's obvious from the last few posts in this thread that FTers individually and collectively know more about how SWUs should work on LH flights than many working in LH including those whom LHconnect must have consulted. The situation is complex with so many players seemingly making "decisions" and there doesn't seem to be a single section within LH responsible for this change.
Initially it was reported that LH's HQ Americas had sent a circular to all stations in N. America to only approve upgrades using the paper SWU if the sponsoring member was physically present. More recently there have been reports that the use of a gifted paper SWU has been denied in German airports as well. So the situation may be more complex than initially reported.
It might have been better for LHconnect to post on Friday that she had read FTers' comments, would pass them on to the appropriate section in LH and come back to us with a response. But she might have been out of the office. Who knows? And she has to deal with people in different time zones as well.
If you remember how long it took for the exit row ASR and FCT access questions to get answered (if at all!) it's not hard to imagine how long the latest question which involves not only LH but also UA/MP might take to be answered. Let's be patient, children (as the Mod in our sister forum might say
).
But let's give our new Lurker, Alison, a chance to find a satisfactory answer to this very complex question. It's obvious from the last few posts in this thread that FTers individually and collectively know more about how SWUs should work on LH flights than many working in LH including those whom LHconnect must have consulted. The situation is complex with so many players seemingly making "decisions" and there doesn't seem to be a single section within LH responsible for this change.
Initially it was reported that LH's HQ Americas had sent a circular to all stations in N. America to only approve upgrades using the paper SWU if the sponsoring member was physically present. More recently there have been reports that the use of a gifted paper SWU has been denied in German airports as well. So the situation may be more complex than initially reported.
It might have been better for LHconnect to post on Friday that she had read FTers' comments, would pass them on to the appropriate section in LH and come back to us with a response. But she might have been out of the office. Who knows? And she has to deal with people in different time zones as well.
If you remember how long it took for the exit row ASR and FCT access questions to get answered (if at all!) it's not hard to imagine how long the latest question which involves not only LH but also UA/MP might take to be answered. Let's be patient, children (as the Mod in our sister forum might say
).
Dec 13, 2010, 3:46 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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But let's give our new Lurker, Alison, a chance to find a satisfactory answer to this very complex question. It's obvious from the last few posts in this thread that FTers individually and collectively know more about how SWUs should work on LH flights than many working in LH including those whom LHconnect must have consulted. The situation is complex with so many players seemingly making "decisions" and there doesn't seem to be a single section within LH responsible for this change.
Initially it was reported that LH's HQ Americas had sent a circular to all stations in N. America to only approve upgrades using the paper SWU if the sponsoring member was physically present. More recently there have been reports that the use of a gifted paper SWU has been denied in German airports as well. So the situation may be more complex than initially reported.
Initially it was reported that LH's HQ Americas had sent a circular to all stations in N. America to only approve upgrades using the paper SWU if the sponsoring member was physically present. More recently there have been reports that the use of a gifted paper SWU has been denied in German airports as well. So the situation may be more complex than initially reported.
Hopefully, LH's latest actions will serve as a final warning shot for those few idealists who still think that LH and M&M can and should be trusted. They can't and they shouldn't. And it really doesn't matter wether LH eventually pedals back or stays on course regarding this issue. Because first of all, it will be too late, anyway, as most of the current SWU certificates will expire within a few weeks. Secondly, even if LH eventually succumbed to public pressure originating from this forum, they'd still have clearly demonstrated their way of thinking and their course of action regarding "valued" frequent flying customers.
Devaluating award miles and breaking T&Cs of SWUs make for a formidable Christmas present combination. Well done, and happy holidays, Lufthansa!
Last edited by flysurfer; Dec 13, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Dec 13, 2010, 4:19 pm
#53
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I'm not sure why this situation should be deemed "complex". From my perspective, it's rather simple: LH is defrauding their customers by unilaterally not honoring written and long established T&Cs for certain upgrade certificates. Now, if LH think they can unilaterally breach T&Cs as they please, I wouldn't be surprised if customers fight back by conveniently breaking T&Cs as well. A race to the bottoms of morals, with airlines and customers scrambling to rip each other off – ain't that a nice and cuddly thought for this holiday season?
Hopefully, LH's latest actions will serve as a final warning shot for those few idealists who still think that LH and M&M can and should be trusted. They can't and they shouldn't. And it really doesn't matter wether LH eventually pedals back or stays on course regarding this issue. Because first of all, it will be too late, anyway, as most of the current SWU certificates will expire within a few weeks. Secondly, even if LH eventually succumbed to public pressure originating from this forum, they'd still have clearly demonstrated their way of thinking and their course of action regarding "valued" frequent flying customers.
Devaluating award miles and breaking T&Cs of SWUs make for a formidable Christmas present combination. Well done, and happy holidays, Lufthansa!
Hopefully, LH's latest actions will serve as a final warning shot for those few idealists who still think that LH and M&M can and should be trusted. They can't and they shouldn't. And it really doesn't matter wether LH eventually pedals back or stays on course regarding this issue. Because first of all, it will be too late, anyway, as most of the current SWU certificates will expire within a few weeks. Secondly, even if LH eventually succumbed to public pressure originating from this forum, they'd still have clearly demonstrated their way of thinking and their course of action regarding "valued" frequent flying customers.
Devaluating award miles and breaking T&Cs of SWUs make for a formidable Christmas present combination. Well done, and happy holidays, Lufthansa!
I have a feeling I might be off to greener pastures soon too.
(Sometimes the grass is actually greener on the other side!
)
Dec 13, 2010, 6:48 pm
#54
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,512
I'm not sure why this situation should be deemed "complex". From my perspective, it's rather simple: LH is defrauding their customers by unilaterally not honoring written and long established T&Cs for certain upgrade certificates. Now, if LH think they can unilaterally breach T&Cs as they please, I wouldn't be surprised if customers fought back by conveniently breaking T&Cs as well. A race to the bottoms of morals, with airlines and customers scrambling to rip each other off – ain't that a nice and cuddly thought for this holiday season?
Hopefully, LH's latest actions will serve as a final warning shot for those few idealists who still think that LH and M&M can and should be trusted. They can't and they shouldn't. And it really doesn't matter wether LH eventually pedals back or stays on course regarding this issue. Because first of all, it will be too late, anyway, as most of the current SWU certificates will expire within a few weeks. Secondly, even if LH eventually succumbed to public pressure originating from this forum, they'd still have clearly demonstrated their way of thinking and their course of action regarding "valued" frequent flying customers.
Devaluating award miles and breaking T&Cs of SWUs make for a formidable Christmas present combination. Well done, and happy holidays, Lufthansa!
Hopefully, LH's latest actions will serve as a final warning shot for those few idealists who still think that LH and M&M can and should be trusted. They can't and they shouldn't. And it really doesn't matter wether LH eventually pedals back or stays on course regarding this issue. Because first of all, it will be too late, anyway, as most of the current SWU certificates will expire within a few weeks. Secondly, even if LH eventually succumbed to public pressure originating from this forum, they'd still have clearly demonstrated their way of thinking and their course of action regarding "valued" frequent flying customers.
Devaluating award miles and breaking T&Cs of SWUs make for a formidable Christmas present combination. Well done, and happy holidays, Lufthansa!
I'm not defending LH - far from it. But I think it's unfair to expect Alison to come back with an answer in a few days when it's obvious that someone somewhere has to retract at least some of the previous statement. It was unfortunate that her post implied that it was a statement from UA (though I'm not surprised reading SWU threads in the UA forum as there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding by UA/MP employees as well). So whatever the next statement might be it's not going to be straightforward.
While we wait for that statement let's not shoot the messenger.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Dec 13, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Dec 13, 2010, 6:49 pm
#55
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: Disgruntled HON**, Indifferent EK Gold, skeptical BA Silver
Posts: 1,734
Dec 13, 2010, 7:52 pm
#56
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SZG
Posts: 3,936
what's the point of having an official LH person here if one can't voice his/her dissatisfaction with the answer!? 
what i miss compared to LHrelate is the eagerness, answers like above could easy come from some anonymous service center, we don't need an insider for those...
might be a bit harsh, but its straight forward... but so should LH's official posts here be...
what i miss compared to LHrelate is the eagerness, answers like above could easy come from some anonymous service center, we don't need an insider for those...
might be a bit harsh, but its straight forward... but so should LH's official posts here be...
Last edited by sentom; Dec 14, 2010 at 1:50 am
Dec 13, 2010, 8:27 pm
#57
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,631
Please, let's not get into personal criticism of LHconnect. As NewbieRunner says, we don't know what the pressures on her are. At the very least she was given bad information and advice.
What we want now is her help as we try to make LH approach this in a customer-centric rather than corporate way. We want her to see reason and make LH see reason. We want her to present the logical case (our case) to LH, and to help LH come around to the position that "We will step up enforcement against actual rule violators, but we won't harass and humiliate customers who have followed the rules".
So be nice.
What we want now is her help as we try to make LH approach this in a customer-centric rather than corporate way. We want her to see reason and make LH see reason. We want her to present the logical case (our case) to LH, and to help LH come around to the position that "We will step up enforcement against actual rule violators, but we won't harass and humiliate customers who have followed the rules".
So be nice.
Dec 13, 2010, 11:28 pm
#58
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
OK, time to pass a comment:
Please don't compare LHrelate to LHconnect. They are two different persons with different approaches/methodology to the same issues. This may have a number of reasons.
The SWUs are a nice thing and work fine for the customers that use it primarily for themselves. The topic here is are they as freely transferable as the T&C printed on the document and on the UA MP website. Sadly the the printed document is outdated and UA has not updated it so far, the prime example being the valid/invalid fare classes. It is a fact that there is a free trade of these happening in office breakrooms, ebay, the coupon connection etc. Whether the majority are sold or bartered I do not know. Towards the end of the year these are definitely given away for free before they expire.
Although intimate partners the UA-LH relationship is (from my two+ years observations of working with both for SMD things) far from seamless. LH requests have to made thru official channels and responses are conflicting, especially in the current CO-UA merger activities.
Instead of riding around on our lurker not being perfect we could perhaps offer constructive criticism she could forward? This would also portray us in a far better light. My two cents would be to request the following:
Immediate measures:
- update the paper voucher fine print to reflect current policy (fare classes etc and correct link to the info pages in LH's DCS (pictures) so LH employees can process the document without the fear of failing an audit
- provide a facility at UA MP that the sponsoring 1K member can ask the name of the person (that will receive the paper document as a gift) be printed directly on the paper document
Future measures: (with an eye on changes to UA MP / CO OP at the end of 2011)
- make it electronic just like the M&M evouchers
- let it be part of the *A upgrade service
- definitely keep it, its certainly a nice feature of the United-LH partnership
Please don't compare LHrelate to LHconnect. They are two different persons with different approaches/methodology to the same issues. This may have a number of reasons.
The SWUs are a nice thing and work fine for the customers that use it primarily for themselves. The topic here is are they as freely transferable as the T&C printed on the document and on the UA MP website. Sadly the the printed document is outdated and UA has not updated it so far, the prime example being the valid/invalid fare classes. It is a fact that there is a free trade of these happening in office breakrooms, ebay, the coupon connection etc. Whether the majority are sold or bartered I do not know. Towards the end of the year these are definitely given away for free before they expire.
Although intimate partners the UA-LH relationship is (from my two+ years observations of working with both for SMD things) far from seamless. LH requests have to made thru official channels and responses are conflicting, especially in the current CO-UA merger activities.
Instead of riding around on our lurker not being perfect we could perhaps offer constructive criticism she could forward? This would also portray us in a far better light. My two cents would be to request the following:
Immediate measures:
- update the paper voucher fine print to reflect current policy (fare classes etc and correct link to the info pages in LH's DCS (pictures) so LH employees can process the document without the fear of failing an audit
- provide a facility at UA MP that the sponsoring 1K member can ask the name of the person (that will receive the paper document as a gift) be printed directly on the paper document
Future measures: (with an eye on changes to UA MP / CO OP at the end of 2011)
- make it electronic just like the M&M evouchers
- let it be part of the *A upgrade service
- definitely keep it, its certainly a nice feature of the United-LH partnership
Dec 14, 2010, 7:13 am
#59
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BGO
Programs: SK EBG
Posts: 645
Instead of riding around on our lurker not being perfect we could perhaps offer constructive criticism she could forward? This would also portray us in a far better light. My two cents would be to request the following:
Immediate measures:
- update the paper voucher fine print to reflect current policy (fare classes etc and correct link to the info pages in LH's DCS (pictures) so LH employees can process the document without the fear of failing an audit
- provide a facility at UA MP that the sponsoring 1K member can ask the name of the person (that will receive the paper document as a gift) be printed directly on the paper document
Future measures: (with an eye on changes to UA MP / CO OP at the end of 2011)
- make it electronic just like the M&M evouchers
- let it be part of the *A upgrade service
- definitely keep it, its certainly a nice feature of the United-LH partnership
Immediate measures:
- update the paper voucher fine print to reflect current policy (fare classes etc and correct link to the info pages in LH's DCS (pictures) so LH employees can process the document without the fear of failing an audit
- provide a facility at UA MP that the sponsoring 1K member can ask the name of the person (that will receive the paper document as a gift) be printed directly on the paper document
Future measures: (with an eye on changes to UA MP / CO OP at the end of 2011)
- make it electronic just like the M&M evouchers
- let it be part of the *A upgrade service
- definitely keep it, its certainly a nice feature of the United-LH partnership
Dec 14, 2010, 7:15 am
#60
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BGO
Programs: SK EBG
Posts: 645
You forgot removing booking class U which makes European economy almost worthless for earning status and miles. I guess LH will only compete on price now...