New First class retrofit info

Old Aug 30, 2010, 9:25 am
  #46  
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No mention of the A330's
are they NOT getting the new F?
any chance they will be retrofitted by jan 2011?
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 10:09 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by ogepma
Btw, Swiss has only 15 a340s to refit with their new cabins which they introduced over a year ago and i don't think even one has the new cabin yet.
Yes, there are several already. Check this thread. Refurbished LX 343s will have new C seats but the F cabin will remain unchanged.

Originally Posted by charlotteimmigration
No mention of the A330's
are they NOT getting the new F?
any chance they will be retrofitted by jan 2011?
65 airbuses LHPII referred to consist of: 24 A346s, 26 A343s and 15 A333s.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 4:21 pm
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by ogepma
AZ has no choice, they have to win passangers back

I am just wondering, if Wolfgang has lost touch with reality why is LH doing so well in almost everything atm? Why have they grown so big and why are they still a prefered carrier to people who don't care at all about lie flat, fully flat etc (which is the majority of the 50+ million people that flew LH last year). INfact I can tell you that he is very much in touch with reality. LH is a REALIABLE AND CONSISTENT airline (I THink it is high-time everyone got that in their heads!) and being such an airline does not mean introducing new products every 2 to 3 years and introducing fancy stuff everytime whilst sacrificing service standards and other things that really matter to the average passenger. This is why LH is a successful airline today. Their management have a strong business plan which is working very well for them. They are very balanced and fair well in almost everything they do (at least the most important ones). LH's business module is like a mix of american airlines and asian airlines however, there seems to be some kind of balance were they are still very coperate but they still have very decent service and at the end of the day, they have still been voted as the best airline in europe by SKYTRAX

Btw, Swiss has only 15 a340s to refit with their new cabins which they introduced over a year ago and i don't think even one has the new cabin yet. LH has 98 with 33 more on order. so........
I am not sure if FT is the place to say how good LH is.

By no means I will say LH is a bad airline, because I do not think so, but I agree with others that the current C seat is out of date, seing other top players in the industry.

It is true that LH is doing very well, but it helps to have an inmense captive market in Germany, where very likely 90%of the companies have private agreements with the airline.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 6:41 pm
  #49  
 
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???

[QUOTE=LHPII;14567739
-LH has quite a good idea of what their customers think of its products and it monitors it on regular basis........ it definitely scores higher then many of critics here would rate it. Don't consider yourselves as a benchmark![/QUOTE]

wow, this is freaking it....
so the thoughts of LH about their genius product are so much superior to what people using valuate it?
give me a breake!!
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 7:31 pm
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Originally Posted by sunseeker
wow, this is freaking it....
so the thoughts of LH about their genius product are so much superior to what people using valuate it?
give me a breake!!
I think you've misinterpreted LHPII's point, which was: LH does do careful market research to monitor consumer perception of its products, but the opinions expressed on FT are probably not representative of the average LH customer's opinions.

Naturally, customers will always want the best hard product, the best service, the largest network and the lowest price (among other things). Since it is impossible to meet all of these competing demands while remaining profitable, the challenge for a company like LH is to find the right trade-offs that keep customers and shareholders reasonably happy.

To suggest that LH management is stupid for not doing everything that FTers want them to is, well, stupid. As responsible managers they should consider the customer feedback we post to this board as valuable input in the decision making process, but then make decisions that are best for the business.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 10:00 pm
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by ismann
I think you've misinterpreted LHPII's point, which was: LH does do careful market research to monitor consumer perception of its products, but the opinions expressed on FT are probably not representative of the average LH customer's opinions.

Naturally, customers will always want the best hard product, the best service, the largest network and the lowest price (among other things). Since it is impossible to meet all of these competing demands while remaining profitable, the challenge for a company like LH is to find the right trade-offs that keep customers and shareholders reasonably happy.

To suggest that LH management is stupid for not doing everything that FTers want them to is, well, stupid. As responsible managers they should consider the customer feedback we post to this board as valuable input in the decision making process, but then make decisions that are best for the business.
^^^ That is exactly my point to, I totally agree with you

Originally Posted by saviox
I am not sure if FT is the place to say how good LH is.

By no means I will say LH is a bad airline, because I do not think so, but I agree with others that the current C seat is out of date, seing other top players in the industry.

It is true that LH is doing very well, but it helps to have an inmense captive market in Germany, where very likely 90%of the companies have private agreements with the airline.
FT is definately the place for everyone to say how good they think an airline is. I certainly agree with you and others also about the C product. The problem here is that everyones saying it is so bad when it is actually not that bad. It is decent enough. Having flown on VS C and BA C I think they can still compete with these two in terms of service and def. price and comfort to an extent.

Last edited by ogepma; Aug 30, 2010 at 10:06 pm
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Old Aug 31, 2010, 3:53 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
I think LH has consistently shown the industry it is possible to run an airline profitably without government support in the last 12 years..
... as long as you enjoy a quasi-monopoly, a blind press which prints "safest airline, most on-time airline" without wasting a minute on research, and a legal system which backs the even most questionable actions of your group.
The insinuation in this thread that LH's management is completely unaware or the world and doesn't know what is going on is ridiculous.
I think that the underlying tone of those opposed to their actions is actually worse - sure people like me believe that they don't have to be aware of the world as they have their captive market ... but given that it is not rocket science to check what the others are doing, I assume that they use their magic and unfair powers to the fullest extent.
The top management is fully aware that their hardware, including the new toys, is atavistic junk but they still work the leverage between what they spend and what they can extort quite skillfully.
Originally Posted by oliver2002
The customers are content with what they get and feel great with the product they currently 'enjoy..
These are strong assumptions ... not dissimilar to claiming that the people are pleased with the German fiscal system as they keep forking up its seemingly high 'fares'.
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Old Aug 31, 2010, 6:21 am
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Folks, if the new cabin comes with the 747-8 intoduction forget the date 2013.
Boeings history in keeping delivery promises lately ( the -8 seems to ne no exception, they just sacked the -8 program manager today ) indicates that the first delivery to launch customer LH will be in the 2015/2016 timeframe.
There are also serious doubts in the financial world about Boeing keeping the momentum, resources and cash-out into the -8 program. Pretty much looks as if they might call it quits in the next 12 months without any major follow on order outside LH.

The US airlines will go for 787 plastic ( oh its really cheap ) which is the highest subsidised aerospace development project ever undertaken, the Japanese goverment has poured billions of $'s into it ( milliarden for the Europeans ) in order to build up uncompetitive Japanese aerospace suppliers
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Old Aug 31, 2010, 6:47 am
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5 years for retrofitting the long-haul fleet? They will finish just in time for starting the test of the new new F seat...

too bad we can't earn HON miles on SQ :-(
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Old Aug 31, 2010, 5:11 pm
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Originally Posted by Fendant
Folks, if the new cabin comes with the 747-8 intoduction forget the date 2013.
Boeings history in keeping delivery promises lately ( the -8 seems to ne no exception, they just sacked the -8 program manager today ) indicates that the first delivery to launch customer LH will be in the 2015/2016 timeframe.
There are also serious doubts in the financial world about Boeing keeping the momentum, resources and cash-out into the -8 program. Pretty much looks as if they might call it quits in the next 12 months without any major follow on order outside LH.

The US airlines will go for 787 plastic ( oh its really cheap ) which is the highest subsidised aerospace development project ever undertaken, the Japanese goverment has poured billions of $'s into it ( milliarden for the Europeans ) in order to build up uncompetitive Japanese aerospace suppliers

OMG this thread is about when LH plans to roll out the new F across it's fleet and not a flame war about subsidies and what not.....

Goodness talk about sour lemons....
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Old Sep 1, 2010, 4:52 am
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Hamallu, it is not about the subsidies it is about setting priorities at the public listed Boeing company who is shifting its resources to a faster ramp up of the seven-late-seven for their key Japanese and US customers. 747-8 needs cash out (which they do not have) for a program with uncertain market success.
US accounting rules are requiring a true and fair evaluation of the development spent at year end( normally done in the November hard close), which is why I assume that the -8 program will slow down or even be cancelled for the pax version.
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Old Sep 1, 2010, 12:40 pm
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mapu
5 years for retrofitting the long-haul fleet? They will finish just in time for starting the test of the new new F seat...

too bad we can't earn HON miles on SQ :-(
...and only 12 months to install new seats on the entire shorthaul fleet to squeeze in more seats ...
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Old Sep 1, 2010, 4:10 pm
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Rambuster
...and only 12 months to install new seats on the entire shorthaul fleet to squeeze in more seats ...
I had forgotten about that already. Thanks for reminding me.
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Old Sep 1, 2010, 6:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Rambuster
...and only 12 months to install new seats on the entire shorthaul fleet to squeeze in more seats ...
LH seems to be of the opinion that that makes them more money than the retrofit. They should have a look at LX: Whereever they presented the new F (and new C), full fare ticket sales increased significantly...
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Old Sep 1, 2010, 7:04 pm
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Originally Posted by Rambuster
Also, every time I get to meet the Wolf the gives me a complete load of bull when I question him on the C seat issue. There are only 3 explanations for this:

1. He thinks I am an idiot
2. He thinks all of his C customers are idiots
3. He has lost touch with reality and needs to go for retirement

I can live with 1. and 3. but not with 2. !!
I agree with point number 3 ^

I strongly believe that the Wolf is the only idiot in this world to think up to now that the majority of LH customers do not demand him to offer a lie flat seat in business class
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