NEK - die Neue Europakabine

Old Aug 25, 10, 2:47 pm
  #1  
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NEK - die Neue Europakabine

a few Facts about New european cabin that goes into operation in December:

- increase of earning capacity on all short-haul aircraft as follows:

B735 from 111 to 120 seats
B733 from 127 to 140 seats
A319 from 132 to 138 seats
A320 from 150 to 168 seats (in reality from 156 to 168)
A321 from 190 to 200 seats (in reality probably from 190 to 206)

- all wardrobes are going out
- A321 will lose one toilet + service support unit at 2R door
- B737 will get larger overhead bins
- seat pitch will be decreased, but living space will be increased in return due to a new thinner seat design
- cabin gets completely new design
- servicewise there will be 4 servicemodules in C class and 5 in Y class which will not be only tied to flight time but also on competative situation on specific route. For example: there will be a small snack on intra-german flights, like Mueslibar.

- stricter control of handbaggage will be enforced where possible
- the launch of NEK will be in december, and external comunication will be launch in January 2011
- retrofit of the wholle fleet will be finished by november of 2011.

Last edited by LHPII; Nov 23, 10 at 1:56 pm
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Old Aug 25, 10, 6:27 pm
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well, with seat pitch being reduced, means one thing, stop using EuroAirpass and start buying tickets with different airlines.
Right now my knees were hitting the front seat, now it will be very hard to sit comfortable in LH intra Europe planes.

- seat pitch will be decreased, but living space will be increased in return due to a new thinner seat design

I'm really interested to see statement in reality, make something smaller, but things end up being bigger
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Old Aug 25, 10, 9:12 pm
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Thanks for the detailed info to the OP.

Sounds like we are moving ever closer to LCCs but want to preserve a false sense of full service and comfort for our pax. Less seat pitch is less seat pitch in my book but then I may be old fashioned.

I can already envision LH Marketing selling thinner seat cushions as a contribution to reduce carbon foot print by carrying less weight and a health benefit for your back because they are firmer and make you sit up straight (... to not hurt your knees, but that won't be said ).
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Old Aug 25, 10, 10:28 pm
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Originally Posted by volta View Post
well, with seat pitch being reduced, means one thing, stop using EuroAirpass and start buying tickets with different airlines.
Right now my knees were hitting the front seat, now it will be very hard to sit comfortable in LH intra Europe planes.

- seat pitch will be decreased, but living space will be increased in return due to a new thinner seat design

I'm really interested to see statement in reality, make something smaller, but things end up being bigger
....completely wrong impression. Seat pitch has completely lost its value as benchmark comparison with new generations of seats on the market. Living space is a new measurment.
By fitting in new thinner seats and moving seat pocket up to the face level, yes it is possible to increase your living space and yes, you will have a more knee room as well.
LH has done a detailed study of what competition does and the most of them have already done the same. AF, LX, AB.......going low-cost does not mean going no-frills!
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Old Aug 25, 10, 11:28 pm
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Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
....completely wrong impression. Seat pitch has completely lost its value as benchmark comparison with new generations of seats on the market. Living space is a new measurment.
By fitting in new thinner seats and moving seat pocket up to the face level, yes it is possible to increase your living space and yes, you will have a more knee room as well.
LH has done a detailed study of what competition does and the most of them have already done the same. AF, LX, AB.......going low-cost does not mean going no-frills!
Makes sense to me, especially on short haul. Sitting up straight not an issue, pushing my knee in someones back hurts.

Only thing that worries me is the seat width in C, I understand the table in the middle is gone and the armrests are not moving to the side anymore, right?
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Old Aug 26, 10, 1:05 am
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I think the intentions are very good.

The challenge to all business in a competitive environment is to reduce costs while increasing customer percieved value (relative to the competition).

I tend to think with my stomach, so the additional snack (and hopefully improved snack on other european routes) is very welcome!
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Old Aug 26, 10, 2:08 am
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Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
a few Facts about New european cabin that goes into operation in December:

- increase od earning capacity on all short-haul aircraft as follows:

B735 from 111 to 120 seats
B733 from 127 to 140 seats
A319 from 132 to 138 seats
A320 from 150 to 168 seats (in reality from 156 to 168)
A321 from 190 to 200 seats (in reality probably from 190 to 206)

- all wardrobes are going out
- A321 will lose one toilet + service support unit at 2R door
- B737 will get larger overhead bins
- seat pitch will be decreased, but living space will be increased in return due to a new thinner seat design
- cabin gets completely new design
- servicewise there will be 4 servicemodules in C class and 5 in Y class which will not be only tied to flight time but also on competative situation on specific route. For example: there will be a small snack on intra-german flights, like Mueslibar.

- stricter control of handbaggage will be enforced where possible
- the launch of NEK will be in december, and external comunication will be launch in January 2011
- retrofit of the wholle fleet will be finished by november of 2011.
Once again thanks for your insight information! ^ I truly appreciate it, it's such a change from the typical posts here starting "how can I maximize..."

Now let's discuss it. Generally it's nice to see that they finally realized that there is space for improvement. Every concept looks good on paper, of course the advantages will be highlighted and pointed out. We will all see what this means in reality. Right now, at least I don't expect the worst.

Not sure who will buy the additional seats though. Besides the very am and the very pm flights, which ones are actually sold out within Europe? Also, at some point they had thought about getting rid of the 735 fleet with the 733 following. Is this "off the table"? They are "fine" but are getting rather old, they soon start to be 20 years and older. An "old" 747 takes off twice / day at the maximum, a 737 does it several times, meaning it will be worn out way faster. I am quite surprised LH still plans to invest in this type some big bucks.

As per their "schedule", it seems the fleet overhaul will happen very fast, unfortunately this never works with their long houl (aka several years to change from old C to current C)
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Old Aug 26, 10, 2:18 am
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Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
a few Facts about New european cabin that goes into operation in December:
Thanks for the very interesting information ^ I am looking forward to experiencing the new cabin. I'd like to stress mamb0's point and wonder what will happen to the C section once the table is gone.

Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
- stricter control of handbaggage will be enforced where possible
Good news, IMHO and it would be especially important for Y pax. I hate to see Y pax schlepping 2 large carry-ons on board, than start to complain to the FA that there is not enough space in the overhead bins, refuse to put one piece of luggage under their seat and than fill up the overhead bins in the C section with their stuff
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Old Aug 26, 10, 2:20 am
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Originally Posted by demue View Post
Thanks for the detailed info to the OP.

Sounds like we are moving ever closer to LCCs but want to preserve a false sense of full service and comfort for our pax. Less seat pitch is less seat pitch in my book but then I may be old fashioned.

I can already envision LH Marketing selling thinner seat cushions as a contribution to reduce carbon foot print by carrying less weight and a health benefit for your back because they are firmer and make you sit up straight (... to not hurt your knees, but that won't be said ).
AND the added benefit of the enticement-ancouragement to get thinner!

Ditto for the thanks to the OP ^ (It certainly helps to plan ahead)

Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
- all wardrobes are going out
Excellent
Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
- B737 will get larger overhead bins
Excellent
Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
- servicewise there will be 4 servicemodules in C class and 5 in Y class which will not be only tied to flight time but also on competative situation on specific route.
Excellent

Last edited by andre1970; Aug 26, 10 at 2:27 am
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Old Aug 26, 10, 2:25 am
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Originally Posted by totti View Post

Good news, IMHO and it would be especially important for Y pax. I hate to see Y pax schlepping 2 large carry-ons on board, than start to complain to the FA that there is not enough space in the overhead bins, refuse to put one piece of luggage under their seat and than fill up the overhead bins in the C section with their stuff
I have to confess that this is something I definitely dislike already. At some stations they enforce it anyway. I am just tired of checking my small bag if I fly somewhere for two nights. On which airport don't I loose those 20-30 minutes at the carousel? I always find a spot for my small carry-on trolley (LH store so well within guidelines) and my laptop bag. Nobody can honestly tell me that those overhead bins are not designed to carry that weight, etc. The same plane models swallow those 30kg bags that are labelled "carry on" in the US and other places.
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Old Aug 26, 10, 2:29 am
  #11  
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Thank you very much for posting this!

Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
- seat pitch will be decreased, but living space will be increased in return due to a new thinner seat design
Makes sense to me. Are they using the same design as LX?

Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
- servicewise there will be 4 servicemodules in C class and 5 in Y class which will not be only tied to flight time but also on competative situation on specific route. For example: there will be a small snack on intra-german flights, like Mueslibar.
I am very happy that the food and snacks stay. As someone who always flies two segments when in European Y this is actually important to me. SK's hopeless BOB is part what keeps me away from them, especially when they run out of food and I don't get anything to eat for 10+ hours.

Originally Posted by LHPII View Post
- stricter control of handbaggage will be enforced where possible
I like this very much, apart from ”where possible”. I suspect it will still be impossible to stop people carrying 60 liter plastic bags of oranges, pluss two sports bags, etc. when boarding in ADB or IST.


Originally Posted by supermasterphil View Post
Not sure who will buy the additional seats though. Besides the very am and the very pm flights, which ones are actually sold out within Europe?
I am also wondering about this, and how they are going to get people to buy those tickets? Lower prices? Fewer flights?
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Old Aug 26, 10, 2:32 am
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Originally Posted by supermasterphil View Post
I have to confess that this is something I definitely dislike already. At some stations they enforce it anyway. I am just tired of checking my small bag if I fly somewhere for two nights. On which airport don't I loose those 20-30 minutes at the carousel? I always find a spot for my small carry-on trolley (LH store so well within guidelines) and my laptop bag. Nobody can honestly tell me that those overhead bins are not designed to carry that weight, etc. The same plane models swallow those 30kg bags that are labelled "carry on" in the US and other places.
Well, actually this is not my point. I am absolutely fine with person carrying more than one piece of hand-luggage in Y if they are willing to store it under their seat if they can't find space in the overhead bins. But what really annoys me is if you are holding a C BP and board late only to find out that all space in the overhead bins of the C section is gone because Y pax put their additional stuff there. The FAs normally do their best to accommodate you and your hand-luggage in such cases but this is probably not the way its supposed to be.
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Old Aug 26, 10, 2:54 am
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What about the width of the C seat ? Will the armrest be moveable as it currently is, or do we get a reduction of width ?

Probably not much point in buying Kont C tickets anymore, which occasionally I do (did?).
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Old Aug 26, 10, 3:21 am
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Originally Posted by Rambuster View Post
What about the width of the C seat ? Will the armrest be moveable as it currently is, or do we get a reduction of width ?
Originally Posted by andre1970 View Post
AND the added benefit of the enticement-ancouragement to get thinner!


Originally Posted by mamb0 View Post
Only thing that worries me is the seat width in C, I understand the table in the middle is gone and the armrests are not moving to the side anymore, right?
I thought I'd read it somewhere, too.

So how will LH justify the price difference between Y and C? LH kont C fare is often twice what LX charges. LX seats don't have movable armrests but catering in kont C is far better than LH.
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Old Aug 26, 10, 3:26 am
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Originally Posted by totti View Post
Well, actually this is not my point. I am absolutely fine with person carrying more than one piece of hand-luggage in Y if they are willing to store it under their seat if they can't find space in the overhead bins. But what really annoys me is if you are holding a C BP and board late only to find out that all space in the overhead bins of the C section is gone because Y pax put their additional stuff there. The FAs normally do their best to accommodate you and your hand-luggage in such cases but this is probably not the way its supposed to be.
Well, if the wardrobes go out, there is less possibility for the FA to actually accomodate extra luggage (apart from the fact that they won't hang C-Pax jackets and coats anymore, which is definitely a downgrade, especially in the winter!
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