Finished the HON LHPJ run.. an AMAZING experiece
May 27, 2010, 4:13 am
#16
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, SQ PPS Solitaire
Posts: 3,598
No seriously. For such an insane promotion, where they literally are giving away miles against cash and where the whole "oh you need to actually fly"-part is not much more then a mere fig leaf excuse to create fake traffic that would not have occured otherwise, in my believe they should be forced to make the transaction without any flights involved, too.
Do not get me wrong, I am happy for all of you who profited from this dumb and damaging promotion and I absolutely understand those of you who did it, because you obviously had a lot of fun doing it and got a sh*tload of cheap miles on top.
But this promo really goes on my nerves.
It is a devaluation of their loyalty program.
It created tons of fake traffic.
It actually damaged the PJ business and drove real clients away.
Yes rental spiked this month for LHPJ, so much that they had to turn away a lot of customers. Problem is, LHPJ seems to have served the mileage runner and not customers with a high potential of returning.
Our company was turned away again today with an unpersonalized standard letter telling our travel team that LHPJ is sold out for May because of their "anniversary celebrations" and we should come back again next month but "keep in mind, the travel conditions will be different then" - without explaining to us, what that should mean. I know it, it is a not so obvious reminder that starting with next month, they dont binge out miles.
Now here is the thing: Our travel agent went to netjets customer for a trip to cannes earlier this month after they were turned down by LHPJ for the first time. Now guess with whom they organized this vip-trip after they were sent away by LHPJ again? Right. Again with netjets. Do you believe they will call LHPJ a third time to try drop business on them? I know the answer.
I am deeply shocked, that obviously no one in the vast world of LH is responsible for checking the sanity of promotions before they are put into the market space. It took us guys a milisecond to realize "Hell yeah, that is the best deal ever for status and hon circle miles" and we did not even need sophisticated hardware like a pocket calculator to get this.
I hope it is a good lecture for them to understand what kind of power networked customers can have over them.
Do not get me wrong, I am happy for all of you who profited from this dumb and damaging promotion and I absolutely understand those of you who did it, because you obviously had a lot of fun doing it and got a sh*tload of cheap miles on top.
But this promo really goes on my nerves.
It is a devaluation of their loyalty program.
It created tons of fake traffic.
It actually damaged the PJ business and drove real clients away.
Yes rental spiked this month for LHPJ, so much that they had to turn away a lot of customers. Problem is, LHPJ seems to have served the mileage runner and not customers with a high potential of returning.
Our company was turned away again today with an unpersonalized standard letter telling our travel team that LHPJ is sold out for May because of their "anniversary celebrations" and we should come back again next month but "keep in mind, the travel conditions will be different then" - without explaining to us, what that should mean. I know it, it is a not so obvious reminder that starting with next month, they dont binge out miles.
Now here is the thing: Our travel agent went to netjets customer for a trip to cannes earlier this month after they were turned down by LHPJ for the first time. Now guess with whom they organized this vip-trip after they were sent away by LHPJ again? Right. Again with netjets. Do you believe they will call LHPJ a third time to try drop business on them? I know the answer.
I am deeply shocked, that obviously no one in the vast world of LH is responsible for checking the sanity of promotions before they are put into the market space. It took us guys a milisecond to realize "Hell yeah, that is the best deal ever for status and hon circle miles" and we did not even need sophisticated hardware like a pocket calculator to get this.
I hope it is a good lecture for them to understand what kind of power networked customers can have over them.
"But this promo really goes on my nerves." Why's that? You don't need PJs, you don't book them and even your friends can still go vip-jet-setting.
"It is a devaluation of their loyalty program." Why's that? It's not smart handing out the top card for free (although some may argue that 10.000 EUR is not exactely a free lunch) but there is no immediate impact on the program and the benefits.
"It created tons of fake traffic." Is that a new phenomenon in the airline industry? Comparing my fuel consumption on the Private Jet (66 liters ZRH-MUC) to my First Class flight (1600 liters SIN-MUC), I think this was the most environmental friendly Mileage Run that LH has ever offered.
"It actually damaged the PJ business and drove real clients away." Based on what? I was flying on a rented plane while the "real" LH PJ was standing on the Tarmac in Zurich. Call them and they get you a jet - just no promotion benefits anymore.
LH indeed underestimated the power of the internet and how it brings people together. What a fantastic lesson for all of us to take more advantage of that tool.
May 27, 2010, 4:46 am
#17
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: LH M
Posts: 239
Pretty vulgar really. DB does this route in first class for about 160 euros advance booking.
In my opinion (and it is that, my opinion) anyone booking a private jet and flying pointlessly around on return trips to a nearby city is nothing short of an environmental vandal. I fly A LOT more than the liberal in me thinks is acceptable, but at least I do something when I get to where I am going that I couldn't do on my doorstep.
In my opinion (and it is that, my opinion) anyone booking a private jet and flying pointlessly around on return trips to a nearby city is nothing short of an environmental vandal. I fly A LOT more than the liberal in me thinks is acceptable, but at least I do something when I get to where I am going that I couldn't do on my doorstep.
No seriously. For such an insane promotion, where they literally are giving away miles against cash and where the whole "oh you need to actually fly"-part is not much more then a mere fig leaf excuse to create fake traffic that would not have occured otherwise, in my believe they should be forced to make the transaction without any flights involved, too.
Do not get me wrong, I am happy for all of you who profited from this dumb and damaging promotion and I absolutely understand those of you who did it, because you obviously had a lot of fun doing it and got a sh*tload of cheap miles on top.
But this promo really goes on my nerves.
It is a devaluation of their loyalty program.
It created tons of fake traffic.
It actually damaged the PJ business and drove real clients away.
Yes rental spiked this month for LHPJ, so much that they had to turn away a lot of customers. Problem is, LHPJ seems to have served the mileage runner and not customers with a high potential of returning.
Our company was turned away again today with an unpersonalized standard letter telling our travel team that LHPJ is sold out for May because of their "anniversary celebrations" and we should come back again next month but "keep in mind, the travel conditions will be different then" - without explaining to us, what that should mean. I know it, it is a not so obvious reminder that starting with next month, they dont binge out miles.
Now here is the thing: Our travel agent went to netjets customer for a trip to
cannes earlier this month after they were turned down by LHPJ for the first time. Now guess with whom they organized this vip-trip after they were sent away by LHPJ again? Right. Again with netjets. Do you believe they will call LHPJ a third time to try drop business on them? I know the answer.
I am deeply shocked, that obviously no one in the vast world of LH is responsible for checking the sanity of promotions before they are put into the market space. It took us guys a milisecond to realize "Hell yeah, that is the best deal ever for status and hon circle miles" and we did not even need
sophisticated hardware like a pocket calculator to get this.
I hope it is a good lecture for them to understand what kind of power networked customers can have over them.
Do not get me wrong, I am happy for all of you who profited from this dumb and damaging promotion and I absolutely understand those of you who did it, because you obviously had a lot of fun doing it and got a sh*tload of cheap miles on top.
But this promo really goes on my nerves.
It is a devaluation of their loyalty program.
It created tons of fake traffic.
It actually damaged the PJ business and drove real clients away.
Yes rental spiked this month for LHPJ, so much that they had to turn away a lot of customers. Problem is, LHPJ seems to have served the mileage runner and not customers with a high potential of returning.
Our company was turned away again today with an unpersonalized standard letter telling our travel team that LHPJ is sold out for May because of their "anniversary celebrations" and we should come back again next month but "keep in mind, the travel conditions will be different then" - without explaining to us, what that should mean. I know it, it is a not so obvious reminder that starting with next month, they dont binge out miles.
Now here is the thing: Our travel agent went to netjets customer for a trip to
cannes earlier this month after they were turned down by LHPJ for the first time. Now guess with whom they organized this vip-trip after they were sent away by LHPJ again? Right. Again with netjets. Do you believe they will call LHPJ a third time to try drop business on them? I know the answer.
I am deeply shocked, that obviously no one in the vast world of LH is responsible for checking the sanity of promotions before they are put into the market space. It took us guys a milisecond to realize "Hell yeah, that is the best deal ever for status and hon circle miles" and we did not even need
sophisticated hardware like a pocket calculator to get this.
I hope it is a good lecture for them to understand what kind of power networked customers can have over them.
May 27, 2010, 9:46 am
#18
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SZG
Posts: 3,936
so you're saying we should take someone who pulls LH into pieces on every possible occasion but then jumps thru hoops to get a shiny black card more serious than a rant from someone who already has a shiny black card for quiet some time and voices (legitimate IMHO) concern!? certainly an interesting view on things...
May 27, 2010, 1:27 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505
I also don't think LH won anything here either.
They maximised shortterm LHPJ revenue at the longterm expense of their FFP. Meanwhile the few existing PJ customers were turned away because all flights were fully booked with once-in-a-lifetime PJ status runners.
It's safe to assume that most of them will be flushed out of their status by 02/2013 again. (Unless of course LH makes this an annual promotion !
)
Last edited by Rambuster; May 27, 2010 at 3:33 pm
May 27, 2010, 2:19 pm
#22
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,510
Can we please have separate threads where "real" HONs who want to rant about Cessna HONs can do so to their heart's content and where those of us who want to report and read about PJ run experience can do so without fear of being accused as the scum of the earth? 
May 27, 2010, 3:08 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: Disgruntled HON**, Indifferent EK Gold, skeptical BA Silver
Posts: 1,734
As I wrote, I understand why you and everybody else did it, and I am really happy for you that you had a great time and earned a lot of miles.
Again, I in NO WAY wanted to intend that people participating in that promotion are insane. The promotion itself is.
As I wrote, networked consumers for the win, Flyertalk at its best!
May 27, 2010, 4:21 pm
#24
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Darth Vader of AMEX, A ladys best friend of Hilton, Pt78 of SPG, *G ,*S, ANA VIP
Posts: 3,918
lhpj teams
hi guys,
i have organised a couple of flights.
one private jet flew a couple of european entrepreneuers, which have already made their exit.
these guys have never flown on their own dime on private jets, as even they are rich, and have fare more money than some on FT ever might earn in their lifetime, they still dont overspend.
anyway, i asked them how they liked the flight. everybody answered me, that they had a once in a lifetime expirience. they were scheduled for paris, but as the weather has not been good, they went to nice instead. (actually pilot were cool, no problem to get slots)
they spend a couple of hours flying to monaco on the heli service, went to a nice restaurant and flew back.
now, these guys totally love it. everybody told me, that they will use private jets in the future. if they go party for example, putting 6 guys in a private jet, paying 9000euro within europe, is not that expensive if you compare that to a business class flight which is 700euro in europe per person.
so i agree, that this promotion might have driven away some customers, but it still created a lot buzz, and there might be 5% which will continue to use the lhpj.
dp
i have organised a couple of flights.
one private jet flew a couple of european entrepreneuers, which have already made their exit.
these guys have never flown on their own dime on private jets, as even they are rich, and have fare more money than some on FT ever might earn in their lifetime, they still dont overspend.
anyway, i asked them how they liked the flight. everybody answered me, that they had a once in a lifetime expirience. they were scheduled for paris, but as the weather has not been good, they went to nice instead. (actually pilot were cool, no problem to get slots)
they spend a couple of hours flying to monaco on the heli service, went to a nice restaurant and flew back.
now, these guys totally love it. everybody told me, that they will use private jets in the future. if they go party for example, putting 6 guys in a private jet, paying 9000euro within europe, is not that expensive if you compare that to a business class flight which is 700euro in europe per person.
so i agree, that this promotion might have driven away some customers, but it still created a lot buzz, and there might be 5% which will continue to use the lhpj.
dp
May 27, 2010, 4:29 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
1. The customers who are flying to go from SEN>HON will probably be quite disappointed- what you receive in the end is:
a) 4 e vouchers more than SEN- so one round trip upgrade C>F
b) Yet some more Miles&More miles
c) Access to the FCL/FCT for all flights
That is it. There is no promise anywhere that HON get op-ups more than SEN. Op-ups seem to be done on a different basis, although HON certainly does not hurt (neither does SEN).
People are spending in excess of 7K eur for some vouchers and FCL/FCT- the FCL/FCT are indeed very nice, however 7K eur would be a very big stretch- after all if you are flying every week, is it not better just to get where you are going faster?
2. Most of the posters have referred to the LHPJ as a "once in a lifetime" experience- I think this is great, this is the spirit of FT, way to go. Now- if you were running a promotion- would you want once in a lifetime experience customers while referring your returning clients to a competitor (Netjets)?
Last post on the subject from me- somehow, this whole thing has turned me off flyertalk- I have learned so much here, and met some very nice people, but really- if it turns into a quest for the "ultimate card" that includes taking weekends on a private jet to get- what?- black leather baggage tags? Hmmm....
May 27, 2010, 5:00 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505
The point is it will probably not be a win-win for anyone:
1. The customers who are flying to go from SEN>HON will probably be quite disappointed- what you receive in the end is:
a) 4 e vouchers more than SEN- so one round trip upgrade C>F
b) Yet some more Miles&More miles
c) Access to the FCL/FCT for all flights
That is it. There is no promise anywhere that HON get op-ups more than SEN. Op-ups seem to be done on a different basis, although HON certainly does not hurt (neither does SEN).
People are spending in excess of 7K eur for some vouchers and FCL/FCT- the FCL/FCT are indeed very nice, however 7K eur would be a very big stretch- after all if you are flying every week, is it not better just to get where you are going faster?
2. Most of the posters have referred to the LHPJ as a "once in a lifetime" experience- I think this is great, this is the spirit of FT, way to go. Now- if you were running a promotion- would you want once in a lifetime experience customers while referring your returning clients to a competitor (Netjets)?
Last post on the subject from me- somehow, this whole thing has turned me off flyertalk- I have learned so much here, and met some very nice people, but really- if it turns into a quest for the "ultimate card" that includes taking weekends on a private jet to get- what?- black leather baggage tags? Hmmm....
1. The customers who are flying to go from SEN>HON will probably be quite disappointed- what you receive in the end is:
a) 4 e vouchers more than SEN- so one round trip upgrade C>F
b) Yet some more Miles&More miles
c) Access to the FCL/FCT for all flights
That is it. There is no promise anywhere that HON get op-ups more than SEN. Op-ups seem to be done on a different basis, although HON certainly does not hurt (neither does SEN).
People are spending in excess of 7K eur for some vouchers and FCL/FCT- the FCL/FCT are indeed very nice, however 7K eur would be a very big stretch- after all if you are flying every week, is it not better just to get where you are going faster?
2. Most of the posters have referred to the LHPJ as a "once in a lifetime" experience- I think this is great, this is the spirit of FT, way to go. Now- if you were running a promotion- would you want once in a lifetime experience customers while referring your returning clients to a competitor (Netjets)?
Last post on the subject from me- somehow, this whole thing has turned me off flyertalk- I have learned so much here, and met some very nice people, but really- if it turns into a quest for the "ultimate card" that includes taking weekends on a private jet to get- what?- black leather baggage tags? Hmmm....
I don't think anyone is blaming the people who went for HON runs with this promo. Bascially it makes business sense (at least for FTers
).LH is the one where the win-win doesn't apply.
In hindsight I could slap myself that I didn't ask the Wolf about this promo when I had the chance last week.
May 27, 2010, 6:35 pm
#27
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF Lifetime SG, LH HON, OZ Lifetime Diamond +, HH Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 14,367
May 27, 2010, 11:42 pm
#28
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, SQ PPS Solitaire
Posts: 3,598
May 28, 2010, 12:57 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: Disgruntled HON**, Indifferent EK Gold, skeptical BA Silver
Posts: 1,734
Thanks for the compliment. Being in Usenet since 1989 pays off, no interest to get tangled up in politics though, I use my FUD skills to survive the corporate jungle.
Well I think I gave a lengthy explanation why. And on the contrary I do need PJs from time to time, not for my personal enjoyment, but for my job. And the promotion goes on my nerves as shareholder of Lufthansa and someone who needed a LHPJ earlier this month for business reasons and was turned away.
It is like inflation. The amount of award miles in circulation spikes as they were grossed out at an ridiculous low price. Bad economics. This promo will also have an affect on the award inventory.
If you do a mileage run you jump on existing traffic that also would have occurred without you choosing to go. Here you chartered a plane just for the run. There is a difference. I can understand, why people could argue against that and believe to be on the moral high ground.
Well we tried 2 times to get accommodated in May and were turned away by an impersonal standard letter (didn't I write that?). Great customer treatment for an elite product. Willing to give you 15K Euro and all you get is a text block.
FT FTW
"It created tons of fake traffic." Is that a new phenomenon in the airline industry? Comparing my fuel consumption on the Private Jet (66 liters ZRH-MUC) to my First Class flight (1600 liters SIN-MUC), I think this was the most environmental friendly Mileage Run that LH has ever offered.
FT FTW
May 28, 2010, 1:02 am
#30
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,510