Yep, you're right!'

Here's specific directions on how to get from LAX to BUR in a more reliable way:

1) Century Blvd East

2) La Cienega North

3) Slauson East

4) La Brea North

5) Right on Edgewood Place, which turns into Highland North

6) Left on Cahuenga Blvd

7) Right on Barham Blvd.

I guess Edgewood between Highland and La Brea is confirmed. Mapquest out!

I just rented a car for the entire time I was down there--a really nice Chrysler 300 from Dollar. Worked much better in terms of getting to the airport at the end of my stay.

Just for future reference for others, there are two rental agencies inside Union Station. Budget is one of them. I don't remember what the second one is, but my subconscious seems to remember it being Hertz.

My trip to SAN was awesome! Gorgeous train ride.

L.a. Mta
 

I once rode the trains all the way from Hollywood to Long Beach. Went to some used bookstores, then came back. It took an entire afternoon--several hours. But it was interesting.

Actually, the train lines are pretty good for tourists. You can stay downtown, take the train to the walk of stars, and to Universal Studios, and not have to screw with car rental and parking hassles. But it's definitely not for people in a hurry, simply because of the vast distances to be covered.

I'm kind of an insider/outsider. Being from CA but living out of town currently affords me both perspectives.

I love trains and often plan trips around them. (This last one was mainly designed for me to take the Surfliner from L.A. to SAN. My next one is to take the Acela from BOS to NYC. The one after that is to take the Acela from DC to NYC. On those two trips, I'm not even planning to rent a car, because I can get around DC, NYC and BOS all on foot and by subway, which completely thrills me.

But there are some places that just doesn't work--both for locals and for tourists. L.A. is one of those places.

Kef's right when he says the Metro trains don't go anywhere you need to go. L.A. covers a HUGE area--I can't give a size comparison off the top of my head, but it wouldn't surprise me if the L.A./Orange County megalopolis is the size of a small East Coast state.

OK, wow. I just did some research, courtesy of the Wikipedia. What is considered the "Greater Los Angeles Area" is 1,000 km^2 larger than the state of Maine.

That's a heck of a lot of area to cover with only four Metro lines (the R/G/B lines and the new Gold line). And it's complicated by another problem: L.A.'s suburban spread is so vast that the traditional notion of "downtown"--the "CBD" ("central business district") where everyone goes to work--doesn't apply here. Yes, there is a "downtown" with some high-rises and business headquarters, but it's largely ignored: Most Angelenos could quite possibly spend their entire lives without setting foot in downtown L.A. Most of the city is made of a spread of single-family housing neighborhoods with commercial development spread along the main streets and centralized in numerous points throughout the cities. Combine that with the fact that most people can live and work on opposite sides of the city--you can live in Pasadena and work in Palos Verdes (between which there are no train connections)--and you have an area in which public transportation just will not work, at least not without a MAJOR, multi-trillion-dollar project of dozens of high-speed train lines, perhaps operating in a large ring-and-spoke system with feeder lines going everywhere.

So, in addition to the four Metro light-rail/subway lines, there are six Metrolink lines (full-sized "heavy" rail commuter trains). But even with these, most of the residents of the Los Angeles area are still anywhere from a 10 to 30 minute drive (much less walk)--if not more--from the nearest Metrolink station. The best the Metrolink can do is operate as a park-and-ride...and not a very efficient one at that.

And hotturnip's comment is somewhat on, but I digress on a few points. First, yes, it's possible to navigate to some of L.A.'s tourist sites by train, but it's inconvenient and slow. And many of the sites--from Griffith Observatory to Disneyland and thousands of others--are not immediately accessible by train (in the case of Disneyland, one might be able to find a hotel shuttle or bus that can pick you up from the Anaheim train station, but the station's not immediately next to the park). Entire areas of Los Angeles are missing from rail access (both Metro and Metrolink). And if the Metro lines are intended to be convenient for tourists to avoid renting cars, their first mistake is not hooking the Green Line directly to the airport terminals.

I'd love to see a functional public transit and train system in L.A. I just don't think it's feasible, due to the way L.A. is laid out. But if one ever appears and people use it, it'd be awesome for two reasons: a) it'd be fun to ride and b) the freeways would be clear so I could set my cruise control at 95 and not have to worry about traffic.

:-D

G'night,
Jackal

It's true that the rail system in L.A. covers only a small part of the city, but if it happens to go where YOU want to go, then it's great. I've ridden the Red Line quite a lot lately, and it's almost always full of people, even on the weekend. In rush hour, it's positively packed. So I would not call it "useless".

Ed

Mantra for tourists (especially those of you who come from localities where there is good public transit): L.A. has a VERY rudimentary transit system that is not rapid, and does not serve most of the places you will want to go.

Your time is valuable.

Rental cars are cheap (can be obtained on Priceline.com at LAX for typically $16-20 per day).

Repeat after me: Dude, you need a car in L.A.

Mantra for tourists (especially those of you who come from localities where there is good public transit): L.A. has a VERY rudimentary transit system that is not rapid, and does not serve most of the places you will want to go.

If you are visiting friends, family, or business associates in L.A. and you admit to them you are using public transit on your visit, they will (rightly) perceive you as crazy.

Your time is valuable.

Rental cars are cheap (can be obtained on Priceline.com at LAX for typically $16-20 per day).

Repeat after me: Dude, you need a car in L.A.

Indeed. Let me use an example:

I want to fly into LAX and use public transportation to get to my grandfather's house in Simi Valley.

1. Wait for 15 minutes, then spend 15 minutes on the G shuttle from LAX to the Green Line Aviation Blvd. stop.

2. Take the Green Line to the Rosa Parks stop.

3. Switch to the Blue Line and take it to 7th St./Metro Center.

4.Switch to the Red Line. Take it to Union Station. Total time elapsed for steps 2-4: 90 minutes.

5. Wait for 30 minutes and then take a n often-less-than-once-hourly Metrolink from Union Station to Simi Valley (45 minutes).

6. Figure out how to get from Simi Valley's Metrolink station to my grandpa's house: perhaps there's bus service, which would add another 30 minutes (at least) to the trip. If not, take a cab.

So, using trains and maybe a bus or two, you'd have to figure on anywhere from 3 hours 30 minutes to 4 hours (and maybe more).

Guess how long this trip takes via car. Try 45 minutes. In rush hour traffic, maybe 1:30.

And if my grandpa lived in Thousand Oaks? There's no train service there, so I'd be out of luck.

Having said that, the above trip *does* sound rather fun to me...if I had no time commitments...

If you're trying to go downtown, it'd actually be faster to fly into Burbank and take the Metrolink from Burbank Airport Station to Union Station. But then again, where would you go once you hit there? Hollywood and Long Beach are about the only places reachable by the Metro (as people above have illustrated).

Dude, you need a car.

As a born and raised native of L.A., let's start w/ a few observations:

1) Simi Valley is NOT part of greater L.A.... It's in Ventura County, with the dividing line being Santa Susana Pass.

2) The directions you offer are NOT the most direct via public transit, nor the fastest. If I were trying to get from LAX to Simi, I'd take the Van Nuys FlyAway Bus from my terminal to the VNY parking lot, catch MTA #169 Bus East to the Van Nuys Metrolink Station, and ride Metrolink out to Simi... Where three of the four local bus routes stop at the Metrolink station. Total time in transit might be as long as four hours...but could be as short as two depending upon how you hit the connections.

3) Your travel times by car are very optimistic. Figure at least half an our catching the shuttle to the car rental lot and at least an hour from there to the average residence in Simi, IF THERE IS NO TRAFFIC. Rush hour? Double that.

...and if he lived in T.O. he'd STILL be in Ventura County. :p

Sheesh, all right. I didn't mean to fuel an argument.

1. Yes, Simi is not technically in "Greater Los Angeles." I was using it because it's a place I'm familiar with, it's in Southern California, and it's served Southern California's commuter rail system. So, fine, choose Chatsworth and Woodland Hills instead of Simi and T.O, respectively, and cut off 15 minutes of drive time.

2. I've taken the Flyaway a dozen times and find it very useful, and yes, it's probably much faster to do it your way, but I was attempting to keep the rail-centric focus of this thread intact. (Besides, trains are more fun than buses.)

3. I don't know how fast you drive, but when I drive and/or my grandpa drives, it's 45 minutes in light traffic. There's usually a little slowage before hitting the interchange between the 405 and the 10, but most of the time when I arrive midmorning, traffic over the Sepulveda Pass is light, and average freeway speeds are 75-80mph. I also was excluding the rental car process in my time estimate, as usually someone picks me up directly at the airport. I'll agree with you there: figure at least a half hour before driving your car out of the lot. In fact, I'd allow even more: a 10 minute wait for the bus, a 10 minute drive to the lot, a 5-10 minute wait in line, a 5 minute transaction, and 5-10 minutes to go find your car and load it up. call it 45 minutes to be on the safe side. Still, 45 minutes plus your two hour rush hour estimate to Simi is 1:15 short of the travel time by train.

No matter what the exact times are, the point of this thread is that public transportation in L.A. is of limited usefulness. It's great if you live in a suburb and commute to work in downtown (that is, if you don't need to stop off anywhere after work). You can't get away with not owning a car unless all of your travel is between Long Beach, Hollywood and downtown (and even then, you have to be within walking distance of a Metro stop, and how likely is that?

And for tourists, about the only sights that you can get to via Metro are some of the sights in Hollywood, the downtown attractions (Union Station, Pershing Square, Angels' Flight (currently out of service), the Disney Hall, the new Catholic cathedral, and the Queen Mary in Long Beach (which is still a ways from the Blue Line terminus). Oh, and you can now get to Pasadena via Gold Line. Everything else requires a car--even the sights that are "near" Metrolink stops, such as Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm (Anaheim), Magic Mountain (Santa Clarita), and whatever else there is to do in L.A., are too far to walk from their stations.

OK, enough arguing (and I'll stop, too). Let's all be friends again...

It can work out as a tourist
 

Hi there,
Last year I passed through LA as a tourist with a mission...

After travelling there many times and always renting a car, I wanted to try something a bit different. Our plan was to fly into LA, do some stuff and then get the train up to San Jose. The plan was to see how much we could do without renting a car.

We picked our hotel carefully - I think it was the Hilton Garden Inn by the airport. This was important as we could get the shuttle bus from the airport (late pm arrival into LAX) and then in the morning walk to the Green Line station next door. This worked out fine and we got into LA OK and had a look around. It was then easy to get to Union Station and get the train northwards.

OK, we didn't exactly do a lot of stuff in LA but it was a nice change to not have a car. If you are a train/subway fan then try it, it is OK!

Jason

It all depends. My parents live close to a Red Line station; they use it all the time themselves. When I go to visit them I sometimes use it too, if I happen to be going someplace else on the line.

Of course I wouldn't use it to get to/from the airport.

Ed

Ditto what he said - I would add and have the time. While rudimentary and keeping in mind that the Greater Los Angeles Area is substantially larger than some of the cities w/ well-established metro systems, I certainly think it's an option for people.

I took the Green/Blue line to downtown LA from the beach earlier this year for a trade show at the convention center simply because I was sick & tired of rush hour traffic. It was easy, faster & less expensive (no parking fee or gas other than to get to El Segundo Station). If I had to be in LA I'd certainly do it again, although perhaps not late at night. I also know quite a few people who use the Red Line regularly.

I also know an FTer who had to go to San Diego area from Long Beach, so took the blue line to town I think (can't remember if he had any changing), then a train to San Diego & then some commuter thing. Now that one I thought was a bit nuts given he could have been in SD in an hour or so from SD vs the time his convaluted routing, but hey the guy likes trains, so to each their own.

Cheers.

Make that STATES... LA & Orange County alone are 6084 square miles of territory. Connecticut & Rhode Island together are 5888. The city of Los Angeles alone is 470 sq. miles. Contrast that to NYC at 321, San Francisco at 47, and Washington DC at 61 square miles, and yes all of them have "greater metropolitan areas," but consider how spotty the public transit is "out of town." All of urbanized London is 1600, Paris a puny 1051; only the greater Tokyo-Yokahama area is close at 5230 square miles... But it's population is nearly twice that of Los Angeles (30 vs. 17 million).

Traditional urban public transit relies upon high population densities to be frequent and cost effective, yet the historic spread of the communities and lack of real hub for circulation in the greater L.A. area doomed most urban transit plans.

What I thought interesting was that there were hopes the earthquakes a fews ago would get more people on public transportation, but no such luck. However, higher gas prices earlier this year saw a spike in folk taking public transport. I do know the Red Line gets a lot of usage.

And aren't they extending or creating a line to go through the westside - thought I read about that in the LA Times a month ago.

Not to sidetrack this, but where does one pick up the bus (Big Blue - $1.75 or something) that goes to Santa Monica?

PS - I invariably find those out-of-towners that are condescending about LA's public transport options are usually from those puny places like DC, SF, etc, who truly don't understand the 'size' of LA. Or it's like people call & say I'm coming to "LA" & then you have to gently tell them that yes they're going to be in the Greater Los Angles Area, but they're 65 miles away from where you live...and their hometowns are nowhere near 65miles large...

Cheers.

I *think* you can pick up the Big Blue in the Transportation Center... Lot C?

There have always been talks about the Red Line... I'm sure it'll happen as soon as they put in that Light Rail line going down Exposition :D

But now there's an Orange Line, which is more of an dedicated express bus route that stops at "stations". It runs into the Valley from the Red Line, so still no Westside connection.

And I agree with your comment about the size of LA and outsiders... they just don't understand:( The opposite sort of happens to me. I presume any other city is the size of LA, so when I actually get there, I'm like, "that's it?" Imagine my surprise when I actually (and accidentally) walked from one side of Manhattan to the other :eek:

I'd like to interject a few thoughts on LA and mass transit. I agree that the area is very vast and you'd have to know the lay of the land to really utilize the transit system for everything. For instance, I can't imagine how to get to a TV show taping in the valley by bus.

That being said, there are some very feasible options for mass transit. The subways have already been covered here, and they are good for downtown shopping, Hollywood, and Universal. Some things you guys haven't touched on, though:

1. The Big Blue Bus which services West LA is not dirty like the MTA buses are. It is a great way to cover the area around Santa Monica, Venice, UCLA, and the like. Plus, it's really cheap. The last time I was on one, it was 50 cents. That's a bargain.

2. The red express MTA buses are great. You can get on one of those in Beverly Hills and get to Santa Monica Pier in half the time because they make limited stops. They're also very clean, especially in comparison to regular MTA buses.

3. Amtrak operates a shuttle between the Anaheim station and Disneyland. I've never used it, but I was on a train to San Diego with someone who had, and they said it was very efficient.

4. The Amtrak lines up and down the Pacific Coast are awesome. You get amazing views and a far less aggrivating trip than if you took the freeway. It is my favorite way to get between San Diego and Santa Barbara other than flying. And with the fares within So Cal, that is one expensive plane trip. In contrast, Amtrak is something like $20 from SAN to LAX. You just can't beat it.

5. If you REALLY want to get adventurous on trains, try going from SAN to SNA via public transit! You go from a trolley in SAN to a bus to the Oceanliner regional train to another train in Orange County to a bus. I've never done it, but a friend of mine did when we were in college. I was flying as a nonrev (friends with the airline employee), and she'd pricelined a ticket. We stayed in SAN, and she had to fly out of SNA. She wanted to go cheap and wasn't old enough to rent a car. So she set out on that trek. Personally, I'd have taken Amtrak to Irvine or Santa Ana and taken a taxi to the airport. But youth is not always so practical.......

Anyway, just my 2 cents on the whole Southern California tranist situation.

P.S. San Diego has a much better transit system. You can definitely do San Diego without a car. The trolley is just awesome.

Why not take the Hilton Garden Inn shuttle to the metro station right next door? Is that better/quicker than Aviation station?

Not sure who your question is directed to?

TrishBOS, what exactly are you saying? Take the Hilton Garden Inn shuttle to the Hilton Garden Inn, and then walk to a neighboring station? Is there a station next to the Hilton Garden Inn?

If there is, that seems to be a misuse of the Hilton Garden Inn's shuttle, and I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate that. Usually shuttle buses confirm that you have a reservation before they take you, unless you express an interest in walking in and staying there.

I don't think anyone said that the LAX shuttle to Aviation station is inconvenient. What's inconvenient is L.A.'s public transportation system in general--especially its train component. So, no matter how you get to the Green Line, it won't take you most places you want to go, including Burbank's TV studios (though the new Red Line extension does go pretty close to Universal Studios, I think), Griffith Observatory, the Getty Center, the Reagan and Nixon museums, Knott's Berry Farm, and a plethora of other L.A. sights.

I don't know much about L.A.'s bus systems, since buses don't interest me nearly as much as trains. I take L.A.'s train system on occasion because I like trains, but if I want to actually go anywhere, it's far more convenient to just rent a car.

San Diego, on the other hand, as chicaloca453 said, is very doable without a car--I think you can get pretty much everywhere except for Sea World, Point Loma, and the San Diego Zoo Adventure Park without a car (if you're willing to walk a bit). You can even go to the Mexican border via the trolley and walk across.

And I may be wrong--you might be able to get to the three above places via a shuttle bus or something.

IceTrojan: Everyone told me I'd be shocked at how small Boston was. Looking at maps, it really looks quite large. But even with the forewarnings, I was still shocked at how small the core of Boston really is. I walked from the Park Street Church to the Bunker Hill monument in just about an hour--and that was stopping for pictures and Dunkin' Donuts (which is an East Coast thing, I guess, even though they're not that great).

And we drove up to Maine in just over an hour and a half. That's less than the drive from my grandpa's house in Simi Valley (all right, that's really 10 minutes outside of L.A.) to Disneyland.

mlshanks nailed it on the head. In a place like L.A., the only people who are going to use the train system (Metrolink and the Metro) are park-and-riders who won't need to use their cars for anything between work and home. And given the lack of a hub or "CBD" (or really multiple good-sized hubs and "CBDs"), park-and-riding really isn't a solution for most of the population, since most can't ride where they need to go.

So, as much as I love trains, I can't really foresee much more significant and useful expansion in L.A. But they're certainly fun to ride--again, my favorite so far is the gorgeous winding ride through the Antelope Valley and out onto the high desert.

While there is a free city shuttle that goes to the Green Line station at Imperial & La Cienega, the station at Mariposa & Douglas is indeed adjacent to the HGI. And it is a wonderful LAX travel secret that a couple of bucks and a smile will persuade most LAX hotel shuttle bus drivers to take you anywhere you want to go, within reason. You could also go to the HGI for lunch.

I usually do public transit to save on airport parking
 

I live within walking distance to a bus going close to LAX. If I am going on a long trip, I will leave my car at my finance's house in Long Beach. Public transit will take approx 1.5 hrs each way. To save around $100 in parking costs, I will do that if I take the time to do so. I have to take a G bus at LAX, then the Green Line & then a Long Beach bus. In other countries, I can travel from the airport to the city in much less time.

LA does not have very good public transit. Many other cities have very good transit. (NYC, London, Singapore, etc)

Consolidated "Getting to/from _____ in the Los Angeles area" thread
 

Does anyone know what a cab fare would be from LAX to N. Highland ave in Hollywood? I just wanted to get an idea of how much

thanks so much!

I'd say probably about $50, including tip.

... without traffic.

Beverly Hills to Disney Hall - transportation
 

Hi All,

Will be in LA next month and wanted to take in a concert at the Disney Hall. Work has me at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Don't snicker, but I investigated mass transit and a two-bus itinerary will take 1:53. Other than renting a car, are there any options? shuttle service on concert evenings?

TIA

Forget taking public transport if this is a weeknight concert. Getting through Hollywood will likely take longer than what the schedule says.

Best option is likely a cab which I'm guessing will be $30-40 each way. Renting a car will prob cost the same (when you count parking charges), if price is an issue, and you will also have to deal with parking.

Not aware of any shuttles or other transport options but doubt that is an option. This is LA after all.

You may want to call the concierge at the hotel in advance and see if there are other options.

Good luck.

What two-bus routing were you looking at? Metro bus route #2 runs (essentially) on Sunset from the Pacific Ocean to downtown LA - this means that it will stop on Sunset in front of the BHH (at or near the corner of Sunset Blvd. and Beverly Drive), and it will take you to the corner of Grand and Temple, which is just two blocks away from the WDCH (which is at the corner of Grand and 1st Street.

According to the weekday timetable, leaveing Sunset/Beverly at 6:02 pm would get you to your destination just after 7:00 pm (the timetable gives only the mark for the end of the line, so I'm estimating the time for Grand and Temple).


Route 2 Timetable and Map (.pdf file):

http://www.mta.net/images/002-302.pdf


Overall Metro Map (big .pdf file):

http://www.mta.net/images/System_Map.pdf

Figure its between $70 and $100 to take a cab both ways or to arrange for a driver. I am sure the hotel could arrange to get you a cheap rental car for 1 day for less money than that. Check with the concierge.

If they will, my suggestion is to go a little out of the way on the start of your journey and take Olympic Blvd. It will be faster in the long run.

The "trip planner function" actually provides two choices for 1st/Grand Ave. The first one was bus 305 to 550 or 305 to 445. The second is the choice you mentioned. With just one bus, this is potentially do-able. I'll also investigate a cheap rental car option.

Walk down a few blocks to wilshire,take the wilshire express bus to Bh and get off in BH-hail a cab from there.
Or take the metro(station a block from DH)to hollywood and highland and take a cab from there.
Bit of a hassle-but if time is not as much of a strain as is money.

If you're set on using public transportation, I would agree with the last post:

Take a cab to the Metro station at Hollywood & Highland (about 5 miles from BH, maybe a $10 cab ride). Then take the Metro red line Downtown to Civic Center station, and walk a few blocks to Disney Hall.

This way you won't be in traffic most of the time. The subway is generally fast and reliable.

Yep, if it were me, being cheap and in need of exercise, I would walk down to Wilshire from the hotel, take the bus down Wilshire to the Metro station and then train it to Disney Hall. Cost, around three bucks roundtrip, plus a walk through a beautiful area. BH is very safe to walk around, even at night, unless the BHPD harasses you for being a pedestrian (getting less common). Keep in mind it is not always so easy to hail a cab in the L.A. area. You can certainly get one at the hotel featured in "Pretty Woman" which is on Wilshire (forget the name). Maybe you'll see Julia there. :)

By the way, if you rent a car, parking in Disney Hall area is around $10, although often you can find street parking for free at night.

IIRC there is a Wilshire Limited which, as the name implies, stops only at major intersections (including the intersection of Wilshire & Western, where you could switch to the Wilshire spur of the Red Line as biggestbopper suggests - exit the Metro at Civic Center/Tom Bradley Station, then walk two blocks to WDCH).

The only factor here is that it will be commute time, so the busses (especially) and the trains are likely to be crowded.


That would be the Beverly Wilshire (now run by Four Seasons).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there is an express bus line that runs on Wilshire; they're red and you can't miss them. It's a hike from the Beverly Hills Hotel to Wilshire, by the way... It's around 10 blocks and those north of Santa Monica are long blocks. I'd echo the sentiments of other posters by suggesting taking the express bus line to the Red Line.

That being said, Wilshire is a complete disaster going from Beverly Hills to downtown during afternoon/evening rush hour and I can't imagine the bus lines, express or otherwise, are any good to get from BH to the WDCH in a timely fashion. I'd rent a car; it's probably cheaper to do so considering your time is valuable. I 'd estimate 45 minutes from the BH Hotel to the WDCH if you take Cañon to Little Santa Monica to Burton to San Vicente to Olympic to get to downtown.

Eh, you'd just as well take the 2 bus on Sunset and walk the three blocks north from Sunset to Hollywood...

Thanks everyone for suggestions. I'm going to the Sunday afternoon concert instead. I assume the No 2 bus is probably the best bet for that scenario?

Instead of starting a new thread, I decided to add onto this not-so-new/not-so-old one.

I've always had it in my head that it would be MUCH cheaper to park at a station and take the Green line to LAX ($1.25 ticket x 2 vs. $10/day in Lot C). Well, I had some extra time this morning so I cruised by the El Segundo Station to scope it out for a 2-night stay. Unforunately, I did find broken window glass in one parking stall, so I decided to continue on to LAX.

My other thought was the Norwalk Station... while really far away, it has a security guard on site... I just need to find out if they're there 24/7.

Does anyone know of a station that is safe to park at along the Green Line?

IceTrojan, I 'think' the Redondo station might have security guard, but that's just a guess. I've parked at El Segundo station before w/ no problem, but it wasn't overnight.

Cheers.