Old Feb 8, 01, 8:42 pm
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, SPG GLD, HH Diam
Posts: 2,727

Looks like LP is trying to further limit the use of miles earned in their program. Visit www.latinpass.com and click on "important notice" for the gory details.
SFO_FT is offline  
Old Feb 8, 01, 9:03 pm
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Tempe,Az,USA
Posts: 442
Can you just imagine four more years of this ?>,L;KJI{]:<,M,<!!!!!!!!!!
Sydneyjb is offline  
Old Feb 8, 01, 9:14 pm
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: IL & AZ
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, WN CP, Latin Pass Bonus
Posts: 3,647


Our One Million Mile promotion was a total success, far beyond all our expectations, however,
because of that we must now find the way to reward the many winners in an orderly fashion so
that all will receive the kind of service and attention they deserve. Airlines, as all hard core
frequent flyers know, have restrictions on the amount of seats they allow per flight for award
travel. That number can change based on availability and demand, however, restrictions do
apply. The LatinPass Member Airlines, that is, Avianca, ACES, Aeropostal, Copa Airlines and
the Grupo TACA are cooperating to the best of their ability to cope with the increased demand
and the same can be said for our airline partners, US Airways, KLM, TWA and National.
However, in order to maintain an acceptable ratio between demand and supply, we find
ourselves in need to temporarily establish the following rules and guidelines:

Effective February 9th, 2001, members of the LatinPass program, will be able to either
redeem, for award travel on any of the participating LatinPass Airlines, including TWA, US
Airways, KLM and National or transfer to other qualified LatinPass participating programs up
to Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand valid bonus miles per calendar year.

Mileage accrued by a LatinPass member, either flying or using the services of non-airline
partners, as of February 1st, 2001, will automatically release five times the amount of bonus
miles, which can be added to the amount of bonus miles eligible for redemption during a
calendar year. For example: a member has 500,000 million bonus miles in his/her account,
he/she may only redeem up to 250,000 for award travel or transfers. However, if he/she
accrues 10,000 miles, after February 15th, 2001, either flying on a LatinPass airline, renting cars
from a participating car rental company, staying in a LatinPass participating hotel or using any
LatinPass affiliated services, he/she will automatically be allowed to redeem 50,000 additional
bonus miles. Transfers are not applicable.

There are no restrictions as to the amount of "flight" miles that can be used for redemption or
transfers, at any time.

Our goal is to increase redemption opportunities for our membership and at this time we are in
the process of expanding our program and negotiating agreements with a number of new
worldwide airline and non-airline partners. As this happens, we will be lifting restrictions

All other rules and conditions existing in the LatinPass Member Guide remain in effect.
SAPMAN is offline  
Old Feb 8, 01, 9:23 pm
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: IL & AZ
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, WN CP, Latin Pass Bonus
Posts: 3,647
I posted above for a quick reference:

My reaction:

1. I think I have posted that LP should have put a limit on redemptions to begin with. The 250,000 per year is not too bad IF they can improve the reservation and transfer system. In fact, I would be very happy with this restriction IF I did not have to call about 10 times to get results. That is the biggest problem in my opinion. I admit I (and wife and son) only earned 500K each - so not as big a deal as it is for those with 1,000,000.

2. Not sure with the current system it is too easy to use more than 250 K per year anyway.

Question I would like an answer to:

Do REQUESTS that were submitted before 9 FEB count as part of the 250K for the 2001 calendar year? What about any awards or transfers given before 9 Feb if requested in the 2000 year?
SAPMAN is offline  
Old Feb 9, 01, 7:29 am
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: 3A - most likey <> BKK <--> EZE; TACA 3A nobody, but GP million miler; Hilton Gold sometimes. Successfully divorced from CO PLAT.
Posts: 3,076
I've had it with Latin Pass!

Look what "trying to work with them", as others have proposed, has gotten us! Less and less!

As far as I am concerned, this is "the straw that broke the camels back".

The multiple rule changes midstream is was not a part of what I bargained for. I submit that the delay in posting of the miles was a purposeful effort to avoid liability. I think we all realistically know that by now...

The fact is we've all been cheated.
Unlike others here, I'm ready to shout it from the rooftops!

In fact,I may well shoot off a letter to the Florida State Attorney General requesting a fraud investigation later today.
Clearly, the media needs to be involved as well.

I would say that "enough is enough" but,I'm confident that there will be more... This saga will continue...

Surely bankruptcy is just around the corner... probably just before Globas Pass opens its doors.

Where is that NY TIMES reporter, that's been mentioned in the UA thread?

[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 02-09-2001).]
tvl4free is offline  
Old Feb 9, 01, 7:43 am
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Land of 10,000 Upgrades
Posts: 9,465
Here's what I see as the bigger problem (though thankfully not for me):

LatinPass requires account activity (which does not include mileage redemption) every 36 months in order to avoid expiration of miles.

It will take a minimum of four calendar years to redeem 1,000,000 miles under this new regime.

I realize that a single car rental in 2003 could solve this problem, but it is still a problem.
UpgradeMe is offline  
Old Feb 9, 01, 1:49 pm
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 3,035
According to other LP millionaires who called LP today, the new 250K limit is not retroactive to any award requests made before today, 2/9. We'll see if they stick to their word on this.
dhacker is offline  
Old Feb 9, 01, 5:13 pm
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Allentown, PA USA
Programs: Northwest-millionair; Marriott, lifetime gold
Posts: 578
The truth is we do not know whether this new rule will be applied to requests pending. Those who called were told that it would not... but they were told this by agents who themselves said they knew nothing of the new rule prior to the calls. How, then, would they know its exceptions and applications?

Latin Pass has become all too easily accustomed to making major changes at whim, and the program increasingly appears to be a gigantic Ponzi scheme. Is it not significant that ownership is now about to pass away from the airlines, and the headquarters be moved to London ?

Should not Latin Pass be held to the same basic standards of any other mileage program ? Would fliers accept as "good news" an announcement by Northwest that starting immediately there would be a 250k cap per year on awards ? Or such an announcement by Icelandair ? The miles were earned... yes, earned by flying every functioning LP member airline .... under completely different rules than are now being imposed. However we or LP may reationalize that, it is not a sign of good faith and does not lend credibility to LP. Whether we would have done the bonus run under current rules is irrelevant. We did them under the prior rules, and after-the--fact limitations should not be imposed.

Do you recall when United was forced by a lawsuit to differentiate between "old" miles and new miles, after some major changes? The reality is that LP has not only made major after-the-fact changes, with no advance warning, but has used every trick in the book to delay posting mileage, create a cumbersome process to discourage mileage redemption, and delay issuance of awards.

It is time not only for Flyer Talkers to speak up, but for Inside Flyer and other magazines with a serious ff reputation to take note of developments and call Latin Pass to account.
Phil is offline  
Old Feb 9, 01, 5:40 pm
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 1,604
I also have had difficulty with LP and transfer of miles and trying to make reservations. My concern is that I would like to know what would happen if LP was forced to allow use of the miles all at one time? Will the organization fold? Do they have assets that can used by the members if they do pack their bags? Does the core group of airlines share any responsibility?

Sometimes agreeing to terms that help an organization continue has greater benefit than forcing a settlement with no ability to pay. Getting them to agree with individuals is much more difficult than a represented group though.

This is a difficult situation that many face and I wonder how successful the many different approaches suggested (BBB, Attorney General, lawsuits, etc) will be in compared to one solution presented on behalf of the "LP millionaires".

Any thoughts?
drtravels is offline  
Old Feb 10, 01, 10:55 am
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: IL & AZ
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, WN CP, Latin Pass Bonus
Posts: 3,647
I agree with drtravels note above. Despite the new 250K limit, if we can get Awards it is a good deal. (I did get my Oct. US Airways trip to Europe confirmed with dates I wanted in about 20 days - not great but an improvement from earlier requests.)

Of course no one knows, but I think LP is facing financial difficulty. Pushing them to hire lawyers to fight court cases [expensive] and forcing them to give out all Awards at once could lead to bankruptcy (or hasten the date).

And I don't think we have much of a leg to stand on as rules state they can change requirments without notice. If the changes are unreasonable, i.e. 100,000 miles for a domestic US coach ticket, then one could argue the point.

Others state that the major airline programs cannot make such changes. But I know the problems I and others have faced when we cannot get Upgrades or award flights to popular places, etc. Is not being able to use Awards in fact a "de facto" changing of the rules.

Enough of the soapbox. I think LP needs to improve their processes so Awards are granted quickly (within 7 days) and without having to follow up. To me, that is the most frustrating problem. I can live with the 250K per year restriction, especially if the Jan and prior requests do not count for 2001.
I hope we do not apply so much pressure they just throw in the towel and we lose whatever miles we have left.

A unified FlyerTalk solution would be great. But we all have different agendas (one can see comments above), so not sure we could come up with one. I just wish LP had talked to 3 or 4 of those that post here and asked us about an acceptable solution before making their decision.

Other thought? Anyone want to propose a unifed solution to submit to LP?

[This message has been edited by SAPMAN (edited 02-10-2001).]
SAPMAN is offline  
Old Feb 10, 01, 11:09 am
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: nurnberg, germany
Posts: 286
gee, i said very similar things in a newly started thread (with positive title) just at the same time.

I'm not sure it's bankruptcy that is at issue as LP is carrier owned, but I do think it is a cash flow issue and the LP airlines would probably like to see the monthly number fairly stable and predictable. If interested, please also see my comments under 'working with latin pass' and as a suggestion perhaps we could take the discussion there.
wormwood is offline  
Old Feb 10, 01, 11:56 am
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Allentown, PA USA
Programs: Northwest-millionair; Marriott, lifetime gold
Posts: 578
I believe there are some agendas all of us with stake in LP have in common, and Sapman's suggestions in another thread on this LP forum do further that agenda. is there any mechanism through which these can formally be presented to Latin Pass on behalf of the 500k and 1000k flyers ? I would nominate either Sapman or MilesRUs ( who has met previously with LP) to do this, and would have confidence in their abilitiy to present a reasonable and professional position to LP. At the same time, I think I and perhaps others would like some assurance that transition away from airline ownership and to headquarters abroad will not even further undermine the relationship between LP (soon Global Pass) and its flyers.
Phil is offline  
Old Feb 23, 01, 3:09 pm
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas
Posts: 1,013
Where are we here Dhacker says requests don't count towards the 250K I had several request they cleared today and I was told they count towards the cap. Funny how I waited then started pestering them and they pull this.
milesrus is offline  
Old Feb 24, 01, 8:27 am
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: IL & AZ
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, WN CP, Latin Pass Bonus
Posts: 3,647
I will send an email (will they answer) today and see if I can get a written (email) reply on this question. I feel strongly that any REQUESTS that were at LP by 8 Feb should not be counted against the cap - even if Awards not granted until afterward. That should include ticket and transfer requests.

I will respond if and when I get a reply.
SAPMAN is offline  

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