MarkXS

Totally agree that it is most likely that TAM will exit Star and join oneworld. But disagree that it is inevitable and that it is "illegal". A condition imposed by the court of one particular country, even though it is the home country of the acquiring carrier, can be changed or ignored with enough money.

Brasil also imposed a "just one alliance" condition but without the "and must not be the same as AviancaTaca" added restriction.

Star Alliance has lost airlines since that condition was imposed (not counting this week's joining of CM and AV/TA). It is likely to lose another airline (US). Thus it is not the same worldwide strength alliance as it was when the issue was in the courts. If you go back though the time when it began, even more airlines have left Star. Granted, with little or no service to South America other than perhaps codeshares, if that. Yet those are the minor issues upon which lawyers appeal decisions and corporate masters "donate" to politicians.

Thus anything could still happen, though LAN/TAM both in oneworld is obviously the most likely. I repeat that nobody from LATAM and nobody from Star ever says "of course TAM must leave Star". Whenever LATAM or *A executives are forced to respond to the issue, they always leave it open.

They know more and have much more money than we do here

J_Fleish

Mark XS The only thing ur failing to mention it is not only looking an alliance as a whole they are not looking at a carrier like BMI or Spainair ceasing to exist has nothing to do with this issue (both don't fly to Latin America) the issue is which is stated in the Chile anti-trust is if Lan, Tam, Avianca-Taca and Copa are in the same alliance Star Alliance would hold a uneven majority on Europe-Latin America Traffic and intra Latin America Traffic making it hard for the other Alliances to compete in the market as these five carriers would do control 90% of the intra South America market. This control can force both Aerolinas Argentina (which already is in finical difficulty) and Gol out of business if they are in the same alliance. The way I see it all its doing is keeping the field more competitive for the consumers which will benefit us in the end. Sure it would be nice to have all 5 in one alliance but with basic supply and demand if Star Alliance holds 90% of the South American market they can charge whatever they want for tickets cuz they know theirs a demand for travel and they have the supply.

winslowny

If TAM left Star Alliance, what do people think would happen *A partner mileage accrual on TAM reservations that have not been flown? I mean, would *A partner mileage accrual come to a sudden halt or would there be a "transition" period?

J_Fleish

my guess with miles is if u booked before they formally exit u'll be fine flying them from a star alliance partner but after they merge they will slowly faze out the star partnership if Tam goes to Oneworld if they go unaligned route i can see them keeping their codeshare with Star Alliance unless if Avianca Brazil tries to stop them because they will join star alliance this upcoming year after Tam leaves

Guy Betsy

Looks like its going to be called LATAM Airlines after all...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18551857

What this means is that TAM will be absorbed into LAN and therefore they are not leaving Star.. cos they won't exist as TAM anymore ...

NPF

It appears that the correct link is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18560343

J_Fleish

LATAM is just the parent company name for starters. Its just like Synergy Group is the parent of Avianca-Taca yet both airline operate under their own brands but that article never mention anything about the brand not existing it just talked about the merge expect a decision to be made in August on Alliance choice

MarkXS

Right. Latam Airlines is just like United Continental Holdings back when it owned two different airlines named United Air Lines and Continental Airlines.

Everything I've read states that LAN (which itself is 5 different airlines, 4 of them in oneworld and one unaligned) and TAM will continue to operate as separate airlines and separate but allied brands. Much like AirFrance-KLM.

I don't know how long that will be sustainable. Clearly the rulings from Brazil (Must be in only one alliance) and Chile (Must be in only one alliance AND that must not be AV/TA's alliance) show that the major regulators don't care about any "separate companies" fictions.

Long term I don't think these arrangements make sense. It's better to run as one customer-facing airline even if circumstances require you to really have multiple airlines underneath. It could be like US Airways, which is still American West and old-US Air by union workgroups and thus fleets. Or like United Air Lines since 3/3/2012 with sUA and sCO work groups and thus fleets but plans to integrate. According to UA PetSafe even UA Cargo is still separate groups "per FAA regulation" as I was not able to book a pet connection on an ex-UA UA flight connecting to an ex-CO UA flight.

LAN already is confusing enough underneath with LA, LP, 4M, and XL as mainline airlines in oneworld and 4C LAN Columbia unaligned, but all branded now just as "LAN". But given all that is already in place, adding JJ as "LAN Brasil" with customer-facing branding just as yet another part of "LAN" probably makes the most sense.

Except to Brasil. But it's not like TAM was their long-term flag carrier; it only came to prominence after Varig tanked. Gol ("Delta Brasil"?) is probably a bigger deal nowadays in terms of growth trajectory and mindshare.

I think we'd all be happier if they just made TAM into another piece of LAN, rather than a separate brand of LATAM. Unless they are holding out as some way to hang onto a chance at Star (probably pitting Brasil against Chile), which is increasingly less likely, it makes no sense to keep a separate brand for LATAM Brasil.

SF Traveler

My understanding is that the separate brands are not being kept alive for marketing reasons. I agree that things would work better if they combined the airlines. From what I have read, this is being done to comply with Brazilian domestic ownership restrictions whiich limit foreign ownership to 20%. I have never seen even an attempt to explain what must be a very complex structure in detail, but I did read that the family controlling TAM will own 80% of that brand. I can only speculate that there are differn\ent classes of shares and that through this they have satisfied the Brazilian regulators while transferring most of the value (or revenue) to the holding company.

Eastbay1K

I would be surprised if they weren't all called LAN within 2 years. The good folks in Pudahuel probably have calculated out exactly how many more millions they'd have to spend having an airline name with 5 letters instead of 3 over the course of x number of years (printing, paint, etc etc) - even labor costs for each extra syllable spoken (time, you know) saying the airline name.

J_Fleish

Each airline will keep their separate brands but will use a common ffp which is understandable something with all the airlines in the lufthansa group. http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/interna...alliance.shtml

neuromancer

This is hugely optimistic, as 27th is today and there hasn't been any official word about it.

J_Fleish

They haven't announced anything yet because TAM can be either in Oneworld or Unalligned. Skyteam is a possible option but really will not happen considering Delta owns a stake in GOL and it seems Skyteam is more interested in GOL then they are in LATAM

CubsFanJohn

That is why I think TAM will go to OW is because of GOL because I CAN'T see the Brazilian Government allowing TAM/GOL in the same alliance. Though weirder things have happened. With that being said I give the slight edge to OW with unaligned is a possibility especially since the Chilean authorities won't allow non-outside alliance codesharing IIRC.

The Blond Kid

Thank you. AA with its hub positions is the only natural partner for the premium Latin American carrier. Something so obvious hardly needed to be stated.