mileage junkie

Ok, so what's the "long haul" if I only play a few times a year? Two sessions at the table? Ten? A hundred?

gooselee

I see what your saying, but the part I bolded above needs a caveat in order to apply it to craps, since there are various different bets on the craps table, each with its own set of odds and its own house advantage.

Over the same number of trials, I would guess that you'd lose less by just betting the pass line every single time than if you're randomly spreading money out across snake eyes and the hardways.

There's no discrete limit. The longer you play, and the more times the dice are rolled, the closer the actual outcomes will get to their theoretical probabilities, both in terms of what number the dice land on, and in you losing money at the exact rate of the house advantage for the bets you are placing.

LV702

I'll bite...

Isn't the Pass line with at least double odds in the players favor? Granted you'll have to roll millions of times, but in the long run shouldn't you be up? (Assuming you ignore all other bets)

kettle1

Incorrect.

Pass Line Bet:
House Edge
Bet made 1.41%
Bet resolved 1.41%
Roll 0.42%

I believe every bet in a casino the house has the edge, if not they would not be in business. Craps (certain bets can be better than other games and the Pass Line is one of the better bets), but the house still has the odds in their favor.

One thing the player has is the "comps" casinos give out. Free drinks, rooms, shows, meals, tournaments, etc. Overall these cost the casino little, but can be very valuable to the player.

The majority of players leave a casino with less money in their pocket than when they came in. Card counters can have an advantage in Blackjack, but once discovered they will be removed from the casino and banned, not just from that casino but ALL casinos owned by parent company. Get banned from Caesars, you would be banned from dozens of casinos all over the USA. MGM same thing. Boyd Group same. And many of these companies, although they are competitors, work together to ban card counting.

RevJim

That's not true, there is one bet in the casino that has no house advantage, and it's in craps. It's called "Taking the odds". You can read about it here (scroll down to "The Free Odds Bet"). Most players just don't know about it and don't take advantage of it.

gengar

To be more precise, the house advantage is built in. The issue that people generally bring up is that most players already take the built-in bet (pass line) but don't take the maximum possible odds bet, therefore voluntarily giving the house a higher advantage.

Of course, putting down any money at any of these games is already voluntarily giving the house a higher advantage.

RevJim

It's free in the sense that once you've made your pass line bet, the add-on odds bet is free. But yes, since you are required to make a pass line bet to take the odds, the house advantage is built in.

If I understand the math correctly, you can whittle down the house advantage to 0.014% by betting on Don't Pass and then following up by taking the odds. Great idea for anyone who is playing for casino perks, "free" drinks or player elite status.

kettle1

^^^

gengar

Unfortunately, most casinos don't take into account the even money odds bet into comps calculations. For good reason.

Loren Pechtel

And don't be mislead by counters playing craps. They know they're going to lose, they don't do it to win. Rather, they do it to make large odds bets at even money (although they still have to make regular bets they'll lose on.) These odds bets don't change their overall win/loss but they create randomness--big wins and big losses rather than small wins most all the time.

TravelinSperry

The house's edge on each 6 or 8 rolled is 1.515%. It is the lowest edge of all the place bets. However, you would do better to play the Come line - as they house's edge here is slightly lower at 1.414%. (and yes, both lose on a 7). So if you really wanted to "up your odds" you'd take your same betting system and instead go to a $1 table (or whatever is the lowest you can find), and bet the Come line with max odds behind it (Because the house has no edge on these odds). Assuming double odds this reduces the house's edge to .572% (or half the odds previously shown). If you can find better than 2x odds (3,4,5x odds or even 100x odds downtown Vegas), you'd lower the house's odds even more.

And actually, the best odds in the house for craps would be the don't pass line combined with odds - but personally I don't find routing against everyone at the table and with the house as fun (even though we'd pick up .05% in odds).

Data quoted above found here:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/

glg

^

My biggest wins are all BJ, but the fun times I've had were all hot craps tables.

julp

LOL

Tim Kelly

Before I write this, I acknowledge that the House always wins. This is just a neat ways to play Craps:

Before come out roll, play the “no” with $400 on either 4 or 10. You’ll have to give temporary insurance ($20 for 400) but most places will give this back if you don’t complete the play.
Then, you place $25 on the hard 4 (or 10) to eliminate the 2,2 roll. You’ve staked $445 and win $200 if a 7 rolls. You’ll net $155 if you win. The ONLY way to lose is if a soft 4 (1&3) roll out.

A 7 typically is rolled 1 out of 6 times. There are only 2/36 ways to roll a soft 4. This will net you bigger comps since you’re “betting over $400 a hand and it’s AWESOME at a cold table! If a point is established (say a 6), you can come off of the no-4, and hard-4 until someone 7outs (or you can leave it). Anyone employ this method?

trooper

My gambling system has lost me exactly $ ZERO (lifetime)…. I don't.

I recall at a young age seeing a Poker (Slot) machine in a Club here...it had a printed card displayed that said something like "This machine returns 78.5% of money played" I thougth.."Well..screw that! LOL