Korean air defends pilot who tried to drink alcohol during flight
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SNA
Programs: MARRIOTT TITANIUM / HILTON GOLD / UA SILVER / AMEX PLAT
Posts: 609
Korean air defends pilot who tried to drink alcohol during flight
Looks like this is the nail in the coffin for me flying KAL. Between the lackluster lounges and this incident where I suspect "honor culture" and saving face playing a part in what could compromise safety, I think KAL is perma-banned for my travels.
Heck, I booked *A out of LAX (at a greater point cost) just to be able to access a better lounge. No way I will put my safety on. the line.
Link:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8996711.html
Heck, I booked *A out of LAX (at a greater point cost) just to be able to access a better lounge. No way I will put my safety on. the line.
Korean Air has defended a pilot who attempted to drink alcohol during a flight, saying his actions “didn’t cause real trouble”, while demoting the member of cabin crew who reported him.
The captain tried to pick up a glass of champagne from the welcome drinks tray before take-off on a flight from South Korea to Amsterdam in December 2018, according to local media reports.
A member of cabin crew stopped him, saying “you can’t drink alcohol”.
The captain tried to pick up a glass of champagne from the welcome drinks tray before take-off on a flight from South Korea to Amsterdam in December 2018, according to local media reports.
A member of cabin crew stopped him, saying “you can’t drink alcohol”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8996711.html
#2
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 268
Yikes! I think there was a crash (or two) on KE (my memory from Air Disasters may not be quite correct) where the same "culture" issue was either the root cause or major contributing factor (ie, co-pilot didn't want to second-guess the Captain or maybe he did and Captain ignore him or something along those lines).
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SNA
Programs: MARRIOTT TITANIUM / HILTON GOLD / UA SILVER / AMEX PLAT
Posts: 609
Yikes! I think there was a crash (or two) on KE (my memory from Air Disasters may not be quite correct) where the same "culture" issue was either the root cause or major contributing factor (ie, co-pilot didn't want to second-guess the Captain or maybe he did and Captain ignore him or something along those lines).
#4
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gangnam-gu, Seoul, Korea
Programs: KE Skypass Morning Calm Member, OZ Club
Posts: 2,351
I mean it's ridiculous, yes, and a very "Asian way of thinking," yes....but there's plenty of other F'd up pilots and things happen at all airlines around the world. Not strong enough for me to avoid Korean Air forever or live in fear when I fly.
#5
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 39
It's not that this can't happen at other airlines that has caused me to decide not to fly on Korean Air after this incident, but the attitude Korean Air has chosen to take. The proper response to insure safe operation would have been to fire the pilot and to commend the crew for not allowing him to drink on the flight. Instead they have chose to demote the flight crew, insuring that in the future the next crew will allow the pilot to drink on the job, and to not punish the inappropriate behavior of the pilot, which tells him he can get away with drinking on the job and tells their other pilots that they can also get away with it.
#6
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
It's not that this can't happen at other airlines that has caused me to decide not to fly on Korean Air after this incident, but the attitude Korean Air has chosen to take. The proper response to insure safe operation would have been to fire the pilot and to commend the crew for not allowing him to drink on the flight. Instead they have chose to demote the flight crew, insuring that in the future the next crew will allow the pilot to drink on the job, and to not punish the inappropriate behavior of the pilot, which tells him he can get away with drinking on the job and tells their other pilots that they can also get away with it.
#7
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 39
No disagreement, but the crew manager should have handled this issue internally and in private. From the article, I gather the one who reported was disciplined for airing it on some kind anonymous message board. This doesn't mean the Pilot shouldn't be fired, only that I can appreciate the need to keeps things internal, especially something like this.
I agree that keeping it internal would be best, but i have a feeling that the Manager felt the need to make it public since the company did not take the report seriously and did not take action to prevent it happening in the future. I for one am happy that it got out since it allows me to be an informed consumer.
#8
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#9
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 583
#10
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
I agree that keeping it internal would be best, but i have a feeling that the Manager felt the need to make it public since the company did not take the report seriously and did not take action to prevent it happening in the future. I for one am happy that it got out since it allows me to be an informed consumer.
"But the co-pilot told the captain before landing, resulting in an on-board altercation between the cabin crew chief and the co-pilot. After landing in Amsterdam, the cabin crew chief formally complained and wrote about the incident on the company's anonymous online message board.
Korean Air summoned the captain and the cabin crew chief. Then came a surprise ― the company closed the case with a verbal warning to the captain and demoting the cabin crew chief for being responsible for the in-flight conflict."
From the above (sorry, no idea how to snippet a section from an article), it appears the crew chief may have posted on the anonymous forum before KE brass had a chance to even review the case and his/her complaint. Assuming everything reported has been 100% accurate and in its proper context, several things can be true at the same time, in my view. Namely, the Pilot acted improperly (surely, no one would think drinking and flying is a good idea), the crew chief improperly revealed an internal issue, and KE not taking the alleged incident seriously enough.
#11
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: BA, KLM, Alitalia
Posts: 99
Never flying this airline, this is a massive safety issue where the company is protecting an alcholholic pilot and punishing the whistleblower for speaking out...Whole senior management should be sacked for maintaining such an horrible company culture of fear.
#12
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 32
I wrote a complaint to Korean Air. They responded as follows:
Thank you for contacting Korean Air.
Regarding the case, we have found that there was a miscommunication between the captain and the cabin crew. Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport of Korea is currently under investigation on this, and we are fully cooperating with them.
We would like to ensure you that we will continue to put full effort to provide a safe and comfortable flight experience to our valued passengers.
Sincerely,
Customer Relations
Korean Air
Regarding the case, we have found that there was a miscommunication between the captain and the cabin crew. Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport of Korea is currently under investigation on this, and we are fully cooperating with them.
We would like to ensure you that we will continue to put full effort to provide a safe and comfortable flight experience to our valued passengers.
Sincerely,
Customer Relations
Korean Air
#13
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Switzerland; South Korea
Posts: 346
Good idea to write a complaint, I just did that too.
If it's as the media reports it, it is obviously very bad indeed, although the Captain didn't drink in the end and it's reported he was joking.
However, as often with such stories in the media, we don't know the full extent of what happened, especially on how the Chief of Crew handled the situation and what happened between him and the co-pilot. I can't believe KAL management has ANY interest whatsoever in protecting such behavior by the Captain. (unless he is a relative to the management).
If it's as the media reports it, it is obviously very bad indeed, although the Captain didn't drink in the end and it's reported he was joking.
However, as often with such stories in the media, we don't know the full extent of what happened, especially on how the Chief of Crew handled the situation and what happened between him and the co-pilot. I can't believe KAL management has ANY interest whatsoever in protecting such behavior by the Captain. (unless he is a relative to the management).
#15
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gangnam-gu, Seoul, Korea
Programs: KE Skypass Morning Calm Member, OZ Club
Posts: 2,351
An update. Some words from the streets :-) I teach English (well, conversation class with advanced students) to various office workers and executives here in Seoul. The general responses:
It's not an issue in the media here at all. Korean Air has good PR people and the media values Korean Air's advertising dollars.
Korean Air has always been shady as hell. Horrible management and reputation for that culture. This is nothing surprising.
People don't care here because they will still continue to fly KE, they need the mileage. They all say "there's not much choice" which is funny because....there's a lot of choice.
All my students acknowledge it's a big deal and overseas would be a huge discussion, but here it's just not.
It's not an issue in the media here at all. Korean Air has good PR people and the media values Korean Air's advertising dollars.
Korean Air has always been shady as hell. Horrible management and reputation for that culture. This is nothing surprising.
People don't care here because they will still continue to fly KE, they need the mileage. They all say "there's not much choice" which is funny because....there's a lot of choice.
All my students acknowledge it's a big deal and overseas would be a huge discussion, but here it's just not.