Seat Recline in Economy - Regulation
May 12, 2019, 9:05 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gangnam-gu, Seoul, Korea
Programs: KE Skypass Morning Calm Member, OZ Club
Posts: 2,352
Also - don't like all airlines ask you to raise your seat for meal service? Not just for the person behind you, but just the ability to be able to eat?
May 12, 2019, 9:06 pm
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 322
Curious what your take is on other unwritten but obviously common sense rules of flying are? If you put your feet on someone else's armrest simply because your legs need to be comfortable and the FA asks you to remove your feet do you ask to see it in writing? If you don't want to abide by FAs requests perhaps you should fly private. Stop making Americans look bad.
Nobody should get to put their feet on someone else's chair unless they paid for it. Good try. But you'll need a better analogy to support your argument. Weak. The debate over recline is that you paid for your reclining seat. You should be able to recline it at any point outside of takeoff and landing. Would you accept an FA request to lift your seat back because the flyer behind you is 6'10" and your seat back is cutting circulation to their legs or should that flyer have booked premium class?
Actually had I known that this would be enforced, I would have just booked business class seats.
May 12, 2019, 9:09 pm
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 322
My wife wanted to sleep, not eat. And no this was the first time I've encountered this on any flight, domestic and international. Beside the meal was terrible. :-/
May 12, 2019, 9:25 pm
#19
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: VIE
Programs: Miles and More, Flying Blue, AA Advantage
Posts: 22
Raising the seat during meal service is standard also in Europe and the Middle East. This is done not only to allow enough place to eat to the back passenger and correct posture to the front passenger, but also to avoid changes in inclination of the seat that are likely to result in spilled liquids. It did happen to me a couple of times. For this reason, when the rule is not enforced and I want to have a meal, I ask the FA to enforce it -- which always happened. I recall some airline making announcement to that end, but not which one.
At times, I'd rather sleep than eat myself but I understand the rationale and comply as requested.
Unfortunately, I am not as fortunate as OP who can fly business as much as he likes and may therefore solve any such problem of interaction with fellow passengers. Not to say that KIX - GMP allows for a power nap at best. In any case, OP's wife was lucky to find a very kind and understanding fellow passenger who let her do as she pleased -- and an indulgent FA.
At times, I'd rather sleep than eat myself but I understand the rationale and comply as requested.
Unfortunately, I am not as fortunate as OP who can fly business as much as he likes and may therefore solve any such problem of interaction with fellow passengers. Not to say that KIX - GMP allows for a power nap at best. In any case, OP's wife was lucky to find a very kind and understanding fellow passenger who let her do as she pleased -- and an indulgent FA.
May 12, 2019, 9:27 pm
#20
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: VIE
Programs: Miles and More, Flying Blue, AA Advantage
Posts: 22
May 12, 2019, 9:37 pm
#21
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 116
Which Americans? North, south or central?
Nobody should get to put their feet on someone else's chair unless they paid for it. Good try. But you'll need a better analogy to support your argument. Weak. The debate over recline is that you paid for your reclining seat. You should be able to recline it at any point outside of takeoff and landing. Would you accept an FA request to lift your seat back because the flyer behind you is 6'10" and your seat back is cutting circulation to their legs or should that flyer have booked premium class?
Actually had I known that this would be enforced, I would have just booked business class seats.
Nobody should get to put their feet on someone else's chair unless they paid for it. Good try. But you'll need a better analogy to support your argument. Weak. The debate over recline is that you paid for your reclining seat. You should be able to recline it at any point outside of takeoff and landing. Would you accept an FA request to lift your seat back because the flyer behind you is 6'10" and your seat back is cutting circulation to their legs or should that flyer have booked premium class?
Actually had I known that this would be enforced, I would have just booked business class seats.
May 12, 2019, 10:06 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,338
Good point. If the OP needs WRITTEN rules to accept that reclining during meals is not allowed... WHY does he not think that is required for feet on seats/armrests? Because HE sees that as automatically wrong? In the same way so many of us see reclining during meals as (equally) automatically wrong perhaps???
BTW...Nice try deflecting the blame on to the airline via the seat pitch argument....
P.S. Does KE have anything WRITTEN saying one must not recline at take off or landing... that one must wear a seat belt...that one must be SEATED for take off and landing etc?? Personally I see all those as 'assumed"...ALONG WITH not reclining during meals.... YMMV.
BTW...Nice try deflecting the blame on to the airline via the seat pitch argument....
P.S. Does KE have anything WRITTEN saying one must not recline at take off or landing... that one must wear a seat belt...that one must be SEATED for take off and landing etc?? Personally I see all those as 'assumed"...ALONG WITH not reclining during meals.... YMMV.
May 12, 2019, 10:10 pm
#23
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: UA
Posts: 444
May I ask what is the point of asking if the policy is written — do you mean written in the internal documents for the company? Or written for the passenger to access?
When I am asked to return headphones before landing or coffee cup or even plastic cup pre departure or landing should I demand to see written policy?
Asking people not to recline during meal service — even if one does not like the meal— is fairly standard on many airlines— European and Asian — even inter- European business (ie economy with a middle seat blocked).
So where do you want this to be written? In the contract of carriage? In flight magazine? Should there also be written policies that I cannot blast my techno music on speaker (it helps me sleep) or kick the seat back in front of me because I am doing exercises?
The list of selfish passenger behavior is potentially endless so how is an airline supposed to have written policy against it all in a format that is easily accessible to all passengers? And in every language?
When I am asked to return headphones before landing or coffee cup or even plastic cup pre departure or landing should I demand to see written policy?
Asking people not to recline during meal service — even if one does not like the meal— is fairly standard on many airlines— European and Asian — even inter- European business (ie economy with a middle seat blocked).
So where do you want this to be written? In the contract of carriage? In flight magazine? Should there also be written policies that I cannot blast my techno music on speaker (it helps me sleep) or kick the seat back in front of me because I am doing exercises?
The list of selfish passenger behavior is potentially endless so how is an airline supposed to have written policy against it all in a format that is easily accessible to all passengers? And in every language?
May 12, 2019, 10:21 pm
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 322
There have been cases of animals dying because FAs have demanded that a passenger place their animal in the overhead bins. Some of the peanut gallery when that happened commented if it was THEM they would have never accepted the request. I feel like some of those same people are the people that say you need to obey all FA requests. Where do you draw the line of obeying FA requests for unwritten rules? These incidents forced a change in policies.
And no I can't afford business class to resolve any of my issues on board. But had I known that this rule would be enforced and I had to take such an early flight and not be able to recline my seat, I would have purchased business class seats or looked for later flights.
Now for the future I'll know that this is a ymmv situation and if I want to sleep on a flight, I should check if there will be an inflight meal.
And no I can't afford business class to resolve any of my issues on board. But had I known that this rule would be enforced and I had to take such an early flight and not be able to recline my seat, I would have purchased business class seats or looked for later flights.
Now for the future I'll know that this is a ymmv situation and if I want to sleep on a flight, I should check if there will be an inflight meal.
May 13, 2019, 4:43 am
#25
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SYD
Programs: OZ Platinum LifeTime; DL PM; QF Gold; VA Gold; HH Diamond; IHG Diamond
Posts: 1,128
LOL...
OP, pretty much everyone who has commented on this thread has indicated that your wife was in the wrong. This is not an opinion, it’s fact.
As has been mentioned again and again, KE (and OZ and many, many others) ALWAYS require passengers to put their seats up from the recline position during meals. Just because you’ve never experienced this before in your self-acknowledged limited flying, doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to insist on what you’re used to. To do so is as ridiculous as someone from the US who has never been overseas insisting they need to drive on the right side of the road in Australia because that’s what they’ve always done...
OP, pretty much everyone who has commented on this thread has indicated that your wife was in the wrong. This is not an opinion, it’s fact.
As has been mentioned again and again, KE (and OZ and many, many others) ALWAYS require passengers to put their seats up from the recline position during meals. Just because you’ve never experienced this before in your self-acknowledged limited flying, doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to insist on what you’re used to. To do so is as ridiculous as someone from the US who has never been overseas insisting they need to drive on the right side of the road in Australia because that’s what they’ve always done...
Last edited by sol95; May 13, 2019 at 4:51 am
May 13, 2019, 6:40 am
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 322
LOL...
OP, pretty much everyone who has commented on this thread has indicated that your wife was in the wrong. This is not an opinion, it’s fact.
As has been mentioned again and again, KE (and OZ and many, many others) ALWAYS require passengers to put their seats up from the recline position during meals. Just because you’ve never experienced this before in your self-acknowledged limited flying, doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to insist on what you’re used to. To do so is as ridiculous as someone from the US who has never been overseas insisting they need to drive on the right side of the road in Australia because that’s what they’ve always done...
OP, pretty much everyone who has commented on this thread has indicated that your wife was in the wrong. This is not an opinion, it’s fact.
As has been mentioned again and again, KE (and OZ and many, many others) ALWAYS require passengers to put their seats up from the recline position during meals. Just because you’ve never experienced this before in your self-acknowledged limited flying, doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to insist on what you’re used to. To do so is as ridiculous as someone from the US who has never been overseas insisting they need to drive on the right side of the road in Australia because that’s what they’ve always done...
Of course everyone decided to be the flying police as if they know I'm a terrible American flyer who needs to learn a lesson. Lol The scenario happened. There really isn't anything anyone can do about it. And I don't really care about anyone else's opinion about the proper etiquette of flying. I did state again that I felt my own opinion was that seat recline outside of take off and landing should be the passengers right. Does that mean me and my wife both reclined our seats? No. I raised mine. I asked her to raise hers because it wasn't a suggestion from FAs. So I acknowledged she was wrong regardless of our personal opinion. Further she was more conscientious about her seat back recline on our return flight from Korea. Despite not having the internet police to tell us that we're terrible people. 😄 And again to counter your argument, I'm pretty sure Australia DOES have it written that driving is done on the left, which is part of my point.
Really though continue on with the internet policing. It makes no difference. This thread has fulfilled my original inquiry. So I'm good.
May 13, 2019, 10:47 am
#27
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: UA
Posts: 444
The dead dog comparison does not work. There is and has been for years written rules that the pet is to remain in the carrier and the carrier is placed under the seat in front of the passenger. The case with the French bull dog had to do with linguistic problems— FA allegedly did not know there was a dog in there and passengers did not tell them and the adult passenger had a poor command of English. So the “peanut gallery” was correct.
The insistence on the airline having a written policy is what took many including myself aback.
The insistence on the airline having a written policy is what took many including myself aback.
May 14, 2019, 10:48 am
#29
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: ATL
Programs: Skypass, IHG
Posts: 161
There is this "no need to follow FA instructions if I don't like it" implication from OP. Following FA instructions is actually in the written contract per the ticket, I think. What's up with the disobedient type of behavior in so many folks these days? Common courtesy and considerations seem to be taking a backseat here.
Of course OP is not changing his opinion, so do many others in this thread.
Of course OP is not changing his opinion, so do many others in this thread.