Braniff

Recently stayed at the Hyatt Incheon. Was surprised to see large numbers of foreign pilots there working for KoreanAir. Does KoreanAir have a policy of employing a large number of foreigners for their cockpit crews ? And are they mainly based outside of Korea since so many were staying at the Incheon Hyatt ?? Appreciate any background.

Was also surprised to see the Hyatt offering half-priced bottles of wine in the bar as a special promo for crews only ! Interesting to see the hotel - which I believe is owned by KoreanAir - encouraging drinking by airline crews....

thekidisback

on my flight from Manila to Incheon there was a foreign pilot as well.

A_Lee

I don't know what KE's policy is. I do though spend a lot of time at ICN and have seen a lot of foreign cabin crew in both KE and OZ uniforms. I've been on at least two OZ flights where I noticed the captain was not Korean, once he was Brazilian, and the other time I'm not sure, but had a Spanish sounding surname. Based on my observations of FAs, there are lots of Filipina as well as some Eastern Europeans and a few Thais. I've yet to see a westerner (non Eastern European) working on the flight deck or as an FA on either airline.

With the ever present increasing salaries in Korea, it's only natural that they look to employ workers from other countries who will be happy working for a lower salary.

flytofly

I know at least one German pilot at KE.
AFAIK, the foreign pilots at both KE and OZ are usually better paid than their Korean colleagues. About the FAs, I don't know.

hiflyer66

Yes, you indeed did see expat KE pilots staying at that Hyatt. The Hyatt is the base hotel for expats--many of whom have come over from Singapore Airways. First Officer expat pay on the 747 is about $9,000 US per month--all on contract. All expat crews staying at the Hyatt receive roughly 50% discounts on meals.

Whomever said that expats at KE are paid more than their Korean counterparts is dead wrong. Korean national pilots (almost 100% of whom are ex-ROKAF) at OZ and KE are in the top fifth percentile (according to a recent Korea Times) for all salaried professionals in the country--in the same class as US-educated attorneys and physicians in Korea.

N227UA

Guess this is the reason why they hire non-Korean pilots, to save $.

flytofly

One of the many reasons why KE hires non-Korean pilots is foreign pilots are not unionized.
In fact, they can't join a trade union, because they don't have a contract with KE.
The foreign pilots at KE are from Direct Personal International Ltd., Rishworth Aviation Ltd., GAP Aviation Ltd., and Cambridge Communications Ltd..
In theory, they are not employees of KE, although they wear KE uniforms and work for KE.
The contracts(between KE and above-mentioned job agencies) usually run five years, and after five years KE decides whether KE wants to extend those contracts or not.
This is not about saving money.

flytofly

$ 9,000 is a lot of money by Korean standard.
I don't think a Korean FO earns $ 9,000 a month as an expat pilot would earn $ 9,000 a month as you already said
Those Korean pilots you are referring to are the ones who are old, a few years before their retirements. The seniority system in wages in Korea is evident here, too.

OZ, for example, pays 1,3-1,7 times more money to foreign pilots than their Korean counterparts , hence a foreign pilot doesn't receive a severance pay when he leaves OZ after the contract. I can well imagine that the situation at KE is similar to OZ.

flytofly

Korean Air

The number of Korean pilots: 1958 (captain: 808, co-pilot:1150)
The number of foreign pilots: 288 (captain: 269, co-pilot:19)

Asiana

Korean pilots: 945

Foreign pilots: 122(all captains)


************************************************** **
Foreign pilots in Korea by nationality


Out of 410 foreign pilots,

51 from USA
40 from Canada
40 from Indonesia
33 from Brazil
29 from Australia

Braniff

The following thread suggests KoreanAir started hiring foreign pilots in response to their many safety issues.


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/korea...orean-air.html

SkyTeam777

I noticed the same thing. So KE pays for their stays? I wonder what their flying rotations look like or if they have to commute to ICN to start and end trips. If they're drinking they must be staying at the hotel for more than one night at a time

mikesaidyes

The day you see a white person working inside a Korean Air cabin, Help me Jesus. Korea will have fallen apart. (In contrast, go to Japan. Foreigners work and manage retail stores.) Seriously, though, they won't know what to do with themselves. That flight attendant would be a huge celebrity.

Typhoonpilot

Last I knew Korean employed upwards of 400 foreign pilots. They are employed on most fleets except the A380 and B787 (entering service soon?). They will get them on those fleets in due course though.

The Hyatt is owned by the same group that owns the airline so the pilots are given accommodation there when in Seoul. They can often be there for a few days in a row and some have part time office jobs when not flying so are there more regularly.

The contract stipulates 9 days off per month in "base". A "base" is anywhere on the Korean airlines network. A pilot can also choose to add two vacation days per month to those 9 to make for 11 days off per month in a row. The travel days to get to and from base are not counted against the 11 days off. This makes it one of the best commuting jobs in the industry. Many American, Canadian, Australian, and European pilots like it for this purpose.

Boeing and Airbus also run dedicated training centers in Seoul to train the Korean pilots for both Korean and Asiana. Those are typically staffed by retired airline pilots from around the world who are on a similar commuting contract to the pilots.

Korean has a long way to go to reach the safety level of European and North American carriers as witnessed by the recent Asiana B777 crash in SFO. Korean themselves have done okay lately and that is mainly due to their employment of foreign pilots.

MSPeconomist

My most recent KE flight was a TPAC A380 and I noticed that the pilot making the announcements at the beginning of the flight sounded like a native American speaker. I didn't catch his name, nor did I make a point of looking at the flight deck crew, so I don't know whether he might have been a South Korean who spent some of his childhood in the USA.