Savvy Traveler

2012 is the year to go! I'm not terribly inclined to go a third time, just because there are so many other places in the world I want to go, but it's a big year. I forget exactly why... hundred year anniversary of the Korean Workers Party, maybe? Or 100 years since the birth of Kim Il-Sung? Something huge like that.

And the Ryugong might actually be finished and accepting guests by then.

I used Koryo Tours. I highly recommend them as they not only know their stuff but have great contacts in the country. I recommend choosing a tour that has a Koryo guide with you the whole time. Little more expensive, but well worth it.

BDA shorts

2012 is the 100th birthday of Kim Il Sung. Our guides told us that it would definitely be a good time to go back--military parades and celebrations even bigger than what I saw when I was there a few weeks ago. Note that you may not actually get to see any of this stuff; despite our repeated requests we were actually sequestered in the hotel for most of that day, and ended up seeing the military parade on TV. (Unlike the BBC's brief report on it, we got to see the whole thing from start to finish on the local TV. Quite impressive.)

Unless you're going on a tour where a western guide is coming along, my advice would be to find the cheapest possible tour. This is because once you get into North Korea everything's fairly standardized--as I've mentioned before everyone sees the same things, stays in the same hotels, gets the same local guides. There's not really much room for the tour company to actually add much value. Maybe if it were logistically difficult to get into the country it'd be different, but as people have said it's not that hard to actually get in once you find the guts to go.

For what it's worth, I used Korea Konsult, a one-man show based in Sweden. There were some logistical things which I would've expected a specialist agency to know, but she didn't. (Example: You don't really need to get a double-entry visa to China in advance. As long as you're transiting through China and spending less than 24 hours there, no visa is required. So if you live somewhere where Chinese visas are expensive and a hassle to get, such as England, just transit on the way to North Korea and then pay 75 euros to get a Chinese visa in Pyongyang.)

Also: A minor consideration for choosing a tour company is the kind of people you want to surround yourself with. On my tour, a good half were Scandinavian. You can get very cheap tours out of Dandong, but everyone on the bus will speak Chinese except for you and the English-speaking guide assigned to you. There's a Spanish tour company out there, and you'd likely end up with a bunch of Spaniards on that trip.

hoto

Good to know, Thanks!

Thunderroad

How were the more mundane aspects of the trip--e.g., the hotel rooms, the food, the service, any other amenities?

And not to turn this into a political discussion, but was it at all strange being taken around to see only carefully selected sites in a country where there is arguably more repression than any other society on earth?

BDA shorts

Hotel rooms were of a reasonable quality--think a Holiday Inn that's due for a refurbishment. Rooms were all two single beds, with TVs--in the Yangakkdo Hotel in Pyongyang (where we spent most of our time) the TVs had outside channels including the BBC. One hotel (the "folk hotel" in Kaesong) was sorta crap. Brief power cuts happened from time to time outside of Pyongyang, and outside of Pyongyang there was only hot water for showers for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening.

The Yangakkdo is clearly designed with sequestered travelers in mind, as it has a number of restaurants, a bar, sketchy casino, Korean and Chinese massages, spa-like facility, bowling alley, karaoke room... it's a strange place with some 40ish floors, with quality of the floor varying depending on whether it's meant for foreigners or locals (the rooms for locals, from what I understand, don't get outside TV channels). There's plenty to explore, including a "secret" floor with what seems to be particularly vicious propaganda painted onto the walls.

Food was highly variable in quality. Most stuff was lightly fried, and had an odd aftertaste of dirt. Overall though much better than I was expecting. There were always a number of things to choose from, including a ubiquitous dish I call "non-chicken meat in a glutinous mass."

Ohh--oddly enough, the beer was incredibly good. Who'da thunk it.

No complaints about service. The tour guides took care of everything that could be needed, and if for whatever strange security reason they weren't willing to do something, it was generally made clear that was the case.

Amenities... normal stuff you'd find in a hotel like overpriced laundry. DHL service out of the hotel. No internet access, although the hotel has an email account you can use to send stuff out (someone on the trip tried to use this, without success). Incredibly expensive phone calls are possible (likely wiretapped). You can mail out postcards from the hotel as well.

In short: Don't expect luxury.

As for the "political" bit--I've seen poor places before, and so seeing poor places in Korea wouldn't've done much for me. The whole point in going is to experience the utter oddness of the place, and that's easily doable with the itinerary we were given. I'm not particularly sure I'd even want to see the inside of a gulag or dilapidated village, if I were given the choice.

Thunderroad

Very useful and informative reply. Thanks!

If I ever get there, I'll make sure to check for the aftertaste of dirt and the non-chicken meat.

DesertNomad

I was there in August 2009 with Koryo. It is easily one of the most fascinating places I've been and would definitely go back. As long as you go with an open mind and realize that everything will be from a DPRK viewpoint (eg... Americans are evil imperialists) then you'll have a great time.

I was also in Turkmenistan in 1998 and it was similarly weird and fascinating, but not quite as sealed off as the DPRK.

skchin

We need more awareness and exposure for North Korea.

BDA shorts

If you were to go back, what would you want to see? I kept getting the feeling that they were pretty much showing us almost everything they had to show. There are a few odds and ends that were missed, and maybe something like the Mass Games would be worth seeing again.

I think you'd need a "private" tour to avoid an almost-exact repeat of your previous itinerary. I can think of the Diamond Mountains (Kumgangsan) and maybe that "special economic zone" up north to be worth seeing. But beyond that...

That having been said, simply re-experiencing the weirdness of the place could be worth it in and of itself.

Their "viewpoint" was a source of much amusement on my trip. I went on a second passport to avoid any potential complications of being an American. On the way to the Demilitarized Zone I asked my guide if the Americans would try to capture me and pull me across the border. "Don't worry," she said, "our people will protect you."

Then, one night at the hotel as we were taking shots of "bear tonic" (don't ask), the other guide asked me how it was that I spoke English so well! "Umm, I went to a university in America..."

Savvy Traveler

Oops, wrong thread- sorry!

FlyerX

BDA shorts,
Not sure if it's stated somewhere or obvious or anything but I assume you're not American?

BDA shorts

I am American and spent most of my life in America but carry another passport--and a passport for a third country should be arriving in the mail by Christmas!

askari

I spend three months a year or so in North Korea and can move freely due to my function. What you say is correct. There are Western people conducting business here (I know all 10 or so of them) and we can move very freely in Pyongyang. I have a North Korean driver's license and can drive around. Apply reason and don't do weird things close to government buildings. When you travel outside the city, you'll soon hit a road block who will tell you to turn around when you don't have the papers. E.g. when traveling from Pyongyang to the Special Economic Zone, there's one every 20 klicks or so.

North Korea is very different from what you get to see with the official, guided tours.

BDA shorts

And this, of course, is exactly what everyone who goes on a tour is trying to figure out--what is it actually like? I can't believe your average North Korean spends 24 hours a day suffocating under the oppression, which is what the outside media would make you think. At some point during the day he's probably buying groceries, seeing his friends, raising a family, and otherwise getting on with his life.

This is why I asked the guides a lot of questions about things like for how long they live with their parents and how they met their significant others. I even went so far as to ask "what does your society think about premarital sex?" (Answer: it's frowned upon [this comes from their Buddhist tradition], but "things happen in real life.") I also figured that these kinds of questions were more likely to get candid, insightful answers, as opposed to any question about politics or the economy.

So, based on the significant amount of time you spend in North Korea, how would you say it's different from what we get on the tours, and (more importantly) from what outside media tells us is "the reality of everyday life"?

askari

As in any country, life there has many different aspects. I mean in no way to relativate the harshness of life there, but there is also for example a funny side. We definitely had some very fun Karaoke parties in Pyongyang. PM me if you want to see some photos, including their awesome song collection, including "Hotel California", "U can't touch this" and "Take Me Home, Country Roads". Or did you know that in one of Pyongyang's prime locations, there is a restaurant selling American-style burgers?

People in Pyongyang tend to live with their parents until they get married, then they can apply for an apartment for their new family. And in terms of sex life, office romances seem to be just as popular there as they are everywhere else around the world. :-)