nldogbert

Hi,

I just wanted to share some recent experiences on my last few "forced" trips with KLM (company travel policy to fly with KLM).

Beginning August and until today, I had to fly a few intercontinental sectors with KLM. And on all these occasions this period, with my current Plat status, I noticed that my requests and complains were taken very seriously and saw immediate action being taken to correct for it on the spot. This happened especially when having contact with ground staff at the service desk at the lounge for both FB and ticket services and especially also at the gate. And yesterday coming of the flight to Dubai, I was like totally impressed to what the gate agent down to the crew did, it just blew me out of the world.. (which for a long time since, am going to write to Customer care to show my appreciation!)

I kid you not, but the service and treatment I received was really exceptional from all my last experience with KLM. Now, I do feel so guilty and in fact in doubt if I made the correct step to move away from the FB program back to OK+ (which handled a few of my issues recently also well though a bit slow at times).

So I was wondering if is it related to the current economic situation that they have mellowed down or because they realize that they are feeling the impact of us FB members running away?

Just some recent thoughts and experience to share..

Cheers!

jmbfrance

Dear friend,


As I explained some times ago, I feel that AF KL very much improved their relation with Plat passengers.

I am French and I must add I always got along very well with AF FA and ground supervisors (maybe something cultural).

Last week, FB called me up because a KL flight I booked (GIG/AMS in january) was cancelled and they were pleasant and efficient in rerouting me (I mean they did not tell me "Mr B., now your new schedule is..." but they called up, exposed the issue, discussed it and asked me before what I prefered. I chose returning a day earlier, because I wanted to have a layover at AMS in order to visit some museums).

IMHO, AFKL is neither the best company nor the worst, and FB likewise. I must add that the main use of an air carrier is, in my understanding, to provide me efficient transportation on schedule from A to B and back, and that lounges are places were I spend some hours but not my life, and that FT schemes are only a plus but not the aim of my choice, and my company's the same.

johan rebel

Not if my recent forced experiences are anything to go by.

• Despite the flights being wide open, the CrownLounge agents were unable to change a Flex Award booking (see this thread)

• Now that load factors are down, you would imagine KL would make the most of the opportunity to ensure that Select Seating really worked, so that their remaining frequent flyer can enjoy empty middle seats, right? Well, think again!
  
  On a recent flight, they crammed 11 pax into the first two economy rows (I'm pretty sure I was the only elite), leaving the next four rows with no or only one single pax in each. The load factor was under 40%.
  
  The only two pax in ES were asked to move up to the bulkhead row. This was no doubt convenient for the steward, who no longer had to exhaust himself walking all the way to row 6, so who cares that the pax ended up with less legroom than anyone else on the plane?
  
  Given that the flight was more than half empty, the cabin crew decided to go the extra mile and provide service beyond the call of duty. First, it was announced that due to the number of Dutch pax being very few, all announcements would be made in English only, so the poor crew would not wear out they vocal cords (they forgot to tell the captain, though, I hope he didn't damage his vocal cords making guttural Dutch "g" sounds).
  
  The garbage run started 20 minutes after take-off, i.e. 10 minutes after sandwiches and drinks were served. Those pax who only ordered a drink probably managed to empty their glasses just in time, but the foolhardy (or trusting) souls who wished to fill their stomachs with the substantial and nutritious fare provided suddenly had a problem. Or rather, the cabin crew had, who now had to do two extra garbage runs. Serves them right!

Way to go, KL! Keep your customers happy and satisfied, and they are sure to come back time and again.

Johan

florin

My last few KL flights have been very pleasant. My next one is in Oct; I'll report back.

PeteW

On one of the sectors on my last KL flight (intra-Europe), the purser did come round and ask if she could do anything to help 'as I was FB gold etc etc'. When I said that the AF/KL destruction of FB meant that I now travelled less and less with KL, she said that cabin crew had received very many complaints from passengers about the 1 April changes.

KL cabin crew have apparently been told to do everything they can to retain customers - but this isn't much use if the customers aren't there in the first place. That flight was about 50% full & I'd flown to AMS from the UK on a F70 with precisely 17 passengers on it.

TravellinHusker

So strange. I am FB Plat and have exactly 0 flights on AF/KL this year. 0. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Niente. No one has ever called me, sent me a letter or email or asked me what's up with my reduction in travel. I guess they don't want my business...

Henry III

Oh, how I wish that the same were true for 'Hubert van Hoofddorp'!

-- H

Aviatrix

As a matter of interest, what nationality were the cabin crew?

(I have been on flights - NOT to/from the UK - with all-British cabin crews, where Dutch announcements were either from a recording or read off a sheet of paper in Dutch that was so heavily accented that even a native speaker would probably have struggled to understand it...)

Henry III

Aviatrix,

You've hit a point that I have been considering for a while now! I haven't been on KL long-haul metal for quite a while (since April 1st, in fact), though not because I'm avoiding them (quite the opposite) - it's just that all my recent KL-stock TATL bookings have ended up on NW/DL metal!

However, on numerous KL shorties, I've been trying to figure out whether there's a difference between KL (KLM proper) and KLc (KLM Cityhopper - who, I believe, are a UK-based outfit, formerly "Air UK"). As it happens, I really haven't noticed any major change in attitude since April 1st: normally, a decent crew and decent service (except for the TUC/ChocoPrince, but we can't blame the FAs for that). From time to time, there's a particularly good purser (greeting FB Elite+ by name) and/or crew (extra drinks offered, etc) and - far more seldom - a noticeably bad crew and/or indifferent (to my status) purser or 'lazy' crew. But I can't find any correlation between service standard and KL/KLc differences.

On a related note, there also seems to have been a change of attitude from many of the 'ground-level' FB staff: correction of accrued miles on the before/after booked/flown wrt April Fools' Day changes, for example, and a number of other 'unpublished benefits' that some FTers have noticed.

I think, overall, that - as with any organisation the size of AF/KL/FB - there are a few 'bad apples' in the employee cart who shame the other, concientious workforce - the latter being acutely aware of the current economic predicament of the airline industry. And it is these I feel most empathy for!

Before AFD, KL staff had a fairly 'captive' market, due to the fact that Flying Blue was by far the most generous of the mainstream FFPs; now, they are having to play the game on a level playing field, which will perhaps take some time to get used to!

Just my four-penneth worth.

-- Henry

redtailshark

Well, notwithstanding Johan's comments, I've thought that KL's in-flight experience has been consistently good. It's not the same for ground handling and ops, nor for FD/FB, but in the air, I've found the blue demons get it done well. They don't often say HINM once the door is closed.

About my most recent KL trip. My bid for op-up failed, actually for the first time in several years, but in reality, the onboard service was good on all sectors.

On the intra-EU leg, the purser came to me during the flight, introduced himself to me and conversed with me on the grounds I was ST E+. I've seen him before, although I couldn't remember his name. On the long haul leg, the crew were attentive and helpful. SharkJr enjoyed his flights in the blue 744s.

However, seat selection for forthcoming flights couldn't be performed more than 90 days out, fair enough.

And there was an outbreak of BA-style seat-shifting just before I got onboard, which had to be addressed at the AMS Crown Lounge. The representative of the blue demons couldn't herself understand what had happened; the system showed my status, I had a reservation printed the previous day showing my seat selection, which she acknowledged. But my Y BPs assigned us not to the mini-cabin but to the main steerage meat locker.

I asked her if these interlopers had E+ status; but no, apparently they possessed no ST status at all! Anyway, she then booted them out and restored our original assignments - which incidentally, I'd had to call in originally, because KL.COM wouldn't permit me to assign them.

And opups were happening, judging by pax clutching duplicate pairs of BPs and the rapid appearance of empties on the Y seat map... but just not for me this time. And of course as always the KL employees were successful in obtaining their own J assignments.

Aviatrix

Henry III - no, KLM Cityhopper are a Dutch company, though you are not wrong in thinking that there is a connection with the old Air UK.

Stand by for some boring history...:

Back in the 1980s there was an airline called NLM (which I believe was a KLM subsidiary) and another one called Netherlines which was independent.

NLM and Netherlines merged in around 1990 to become KLM Cityhopper.

Air UK was a UK airline which was originally independent, then became part-owned by KLM and eventually became fully-owned by KLM. When KLM acquired full ownership Air UK was renamed KLM UK but remained a UK company.

Some years later Air UK was fully integrated into KLM (that's when all their aircraft changed from the G register to the PH register), and the KLM UK name was dropped - but I understand that the separate UK company still exists, though only for the purpose of paying the wages of KLM's UK-based flight crews. KLM still maintains some of the old Air UK crew bases in the UK (NWI is one of them), though some of the old Air UK crew are now working from the Netherlands, under Dutch contracts.

kaminski

I had a flight from Bog-Cdg-Ams-Kul last month and did all my checking in at the AF Bogota desk.Even assured that my seat assignment from Ams - Kul was as elite status and therefore should not have any problems. Well, thats where the fun started, had a boarding pass for 9B,at departure gate got the "Oh, Mr.Kaminski, we have a seat change for you and ended up with 11G..and no amount of squabbling from me was going to make any change.Once on board the aircraft I explained to the Chief Purser and even showed him the original boarding pass from Bogota( I refused to exchange it at the gate)...well the answer I got was " and yes Sir, what do you want me to do about it"..I asked about elite status and who was seating in 9B,another Gold elite...and what about 9A then, Mmmm..not an elite. So, you can instruct a seat change or not? Not this time Sir...blah blah blah
In a nutshell, I informed him this would be my last KLM flight and took my other seat.
I wrote to KLM,Flying Blue,visited the manager at Kuala Lumpur and at the end of the day, they don't give a damn.
I'm over it as I just won't fly on KLM metal anymore, I'll get to Kul via Sin with AF instead.

MichielR

I have been busy filling in feed-back forms over recent months, and have had quite a few phone-calls to follow-up. And despite my best intentions I have not managed to completely avoid AFKL as schedule is the most important factor for my travel arrangements.

In my recent conversations with FB, KL Customer Service and crew, it has all been stated that instructions have been issued to look after E+ better. We are supposed to be AFKL's best customers and - maybe late - someone has recognized that.

FB is a separate entity with separate targets and until the top management calls them in, nothing will change there.

Of course, as we all know and have experienced, it is one thing to instruct your staff to look after their best customers and another to actually see it happen. Family, friends and neighbours often still get looked after much better than fare paying passengers.

There is also a difference between attitudes of staff whose job it is to work with passengers i.e. crew, and those in the back office who move around people reassigning seats from behind a computer screen. It will no doubt be much harder to do something about those, unless complaints make their way back to the back office.

To the KL v KLC point: KL UK has been integrated into KLC, not KL proper. KLC is still a separate entity than KL. Although service levels (maybe not the right way to express this...) are supposed to be similar, there remain differences. But KLC and ex-UK crew operate together on all KLC flights. I have had all Dutch crew on flights to the UK and all UK crew on KLC to Germany. Ex KL UK staff and new hirings are expected to learn Dutch and some are actually quite proficient. Others, as Aviatrix demonstrates aren't yet.

I recall instances where the crew only did announcements in English but these were all because of the short taxi from the apron to the runway (Kaagbaan, rwy24, the one that runs from the C-pier past the freight area). To do both languages would have been impossible without loosing the slot or delaying the 747 behind.

I would hope that AFKL genuinely recognize that what has happened with AFKL and FB in the last few years is not going to help them recover and that they make every effort to retain those who still choose to (or have to) fly AFKL.

johan rebel

The four I spoke to (and I always address KL crew in Dutch) were undoubtedly native speakers of the language.

Johan

GenevaFlyer

Hi Michiel,

[QUOTE=MichielR;12297060In my recent conversations with FB, KL Customer Service and crew, it has all been stated that instructions have been issued to look after E+ better. We are supposed to be AFKL's best customers and - maybe late - someone has recognized that.

FB is a separate entity with separate targets and until the top management calls them in, nothing will change there.
[/QUOTE]

I'm glad to hear that some sort of consequence is starting to be felt by KLM and, mybe, FB. However, until FB rescinds some of their recent changes, no amount of good service on board is going to make the elites who fled come back.

Before the change, I could live with the 25%/100% rule. Pretty much all European airlines have that. However, the 50%/75% rule is the kicker.

With 200 segments on Skyteam in the past 4 years, I tried to be loyal, but I just can't justify it anymore. If earning a free ticket takes 4 times as long ... why should I give my business to AF/KL.

And as a data point, starting October, I'll find myself in C more often than before ... will I prefer AF/KL before others ... no, they lost me with the April 1 changes.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

PS = As another data point, who was the last company to upgrade me TATL in the past 3 years ........................................
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CO

(I'm just waiting to see their earnings chart before asking for a status match)