NW vs KL: program differences? award levels?
 

Am considering the possibility of relocating from the US to the UK for a while (work-related move) but wouldn't want to freeze/waste my NW miles & status.

If I were to relocate, would it make sense to switch from WorldPerks to Flying Dutchman? Is it possible to convert existing WP miles to FD points, and are they devalued a lot in the conversion?

Which program is more restrictive when it comes to mileage redemption for u/g's and awards? E.g. NW allows WBC upgrades only from B to I and from Y to Z; is KL equally restrictive, or does it allow u/g's from more discount-coach fare classes? And are WBC awards easy (or at all possible) to redeem on KL?

Also, what are some of the typical award levels, e.g. how many points for u/g or free r/t Europe/US or Europe/SEAsia in WBC? I tried to look for the latter info on the KL website but it seems that the award levels are posted in a secure area to be viewed only by existing FD members.

Lastly, how is the KL presence in the London area, i.e. flight frequencies to the AMS hub from LHR, LGW etc.?

Many thanks for any comments.

Welcome to the KLM forum!

I try to answer your questions:

If I were to relocate, would it make sense to switch from WorldPerks to Flying Dutchman? Is it possible to convert existing WP miles to FD points, and are they devalued a lot in the conversion?

It makes sense if you find the KLM FD program more suitable. You can convert 1:1 mileage and status. But it can be a process of up to 8 or 10 weeks...

Which program is more restrictive when it comes to mileage redemption for u/g's and awards? E.g. NW allows WBC upgrades only from B to I and from Y to Z; is KL equally restrictive, or does it allow u/g's from more discount-coach fare classes? And are WBC awards easy (or at all possible) to redeem on KL?

Certainly NW is more restrictive. You can upgrade from any standard eco fare and you get miles on any published fare. Mileage earning is identical to NW WP also for elite bonus. As for awards KLM is great, as a GE or PE you'll get mostly any award if you are a little bit flexible and don't fly in the very peak weeks of the year. This is on KL metal only, as for NW and CO it's more tricky (comparable to your current situation at NW WP).

Also, what are some of the typical award levels, e.g. how many points for u/g or free r/t Europe/US or Europe/SEAsia in WBC? I tried to look for the latter info on the KL website but it seems that the award levels are posted in a secure area to be viewed only by existing FD members.

Awards: eco euro-US 50k, biz 80k, upg. 20k oneway. europe-far east 100k eco, 150k biz, 40k oneway upg.

Lastly, how is the KL presence in the London area, i.e. flight frequencies to the AMS hub from LHR, LGW etc.?

They have a great frequency on LHR-AMS (about 10 flights a day) and LCY-AMS (about 5 a day). Only tricky thing is to get a paper ticket there. AFAIK the only option is the office at LHR.

Hope I could help!

I agree. KL is much better, no restriction on awards. And another important point: Free access to NW Worldclubs...even NWs own members have to pay for that! Certain Continental clubs also free (EWR and IAH) when connecting from KL.

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KLM PE,HHonors Diamond,SPG Plat,PC Plat,SAS Silver

You can get (free) TOD at both LHR and LCY. I've never had to queue for more than 5 minutes at LHR, and I've rarely had to queue at all for anything at LCY. It's just a bit annoying that, with TOD, you have to turn up 15 minutes before your LCY flight leaves and not 10 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Many thanks to all for the excellent detailed replies.

ralfkrippner --

Pardon my ignorance but does KL use the same mileage-based system these days as NW (as opposed to points accrued per km. instead of per mile)? If so, the europe-asia award levels seem quite expensive! (I suppose the less-restricted availability and better selection of upgradeable fare classes would make up for that.) Thanks again for all the info.

KL now has the same miles system as NW. Remember ALL fare classes are upgradeable.

My favorite is that flights on KL/NW can be upgraded at the AMS lounge right before the flight (good for last-minute tickets or if there wasn't availablity). If there is any seat open it will be released because there is not much of a chance they will be able to sell it an hour before departure...

Gold and PE elites also can get free membership in the 6 Continents club (Inter-Continental & Forum hotels) regular fee is $150. This membership also includes Platinum status at Priority Club hotels (Crowne Plaza, Holiday Inn).

Welcome to KLs wonderful world of benefits!

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KLM PE,HHonors Diamond,SPG Plat,PC Plat,SAS Silver

Elena - Are you sure about the sixcontinentals stuff? I e-mailed their office in London about a couple of months ago, only to be told that the deal had been discontinued last October when the new programme was introduced.

I guess your information is true. We had a discussion about that some time ago and many people stated that they have tried (even with the old program) but did not get membership for free...

There's also some decent hire-car benefits in KL GE/PE - you can get free upgrades (on both) with Avis, free upgrades (on PE) with Hertz, and free #1 Club Gold membership with both.

For hotels, I've managed to get free upgrades at both NH and Inter-Continental hotels with GE.

And if you visit the Netherlands regularly the 10-miles-per-minute offer on the O2 mobile network (when roaming) is a fantastic little miles-earner.

Concerning Worldperks vs. FD:

If you are used to "american style" customer service, you will be very disappointed by KLM. When I lived overseas, their customer service help desk would exasperate me every time I called. Their personnel don't know the program rules, if you ask 3 reps the same question you will get 5 different answers, you have to fax documents to them at least 4 times before they acknowledge receipt, it takes months to get anything done, etc. Often they promise to do x and they do y instead. Many times I have had reps repeatedly deny the existence of an award or other attribute of their program, despite published documents to the contrary. I think they train their personnel to try and frustrate the customer so they don't make future demands.

Yes I am sure it is on page 70 in the FD brochure. That does not mean it is easily obtainable. I was at the Inter-C. Barclay in NY who knew nothing of this promotion. I called FD helpdesk who faxed over the info after only a few minutes(!). Was given the 6C card and was later asked for it back because they couldn't get it in the system wihout registering a form of payment and said I had to go through the airline. Had a talk with the guest relations manager who promised to take care of it herself so I did keep the card. Now let's see if the stays post...


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KLM PE,HHonors Diamond,SPG Plat,PC Plat,SAS Silver

My FD Platinum Program Brochure has a total of 68 pages...

Heck, I'm still waiting for my FD Platinum brochure! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The fax I receved from the FD Helpdesk says it is on page 70-71, in the section about member benefits under hotels and car rentals.
My own brochure is at home but I believe it was in the FD Gold Elite 2003 brochure.

I still have the fax so if anyone is in immediate need of this benefit you can e-mail me and I would be happy to fax a copy.

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KLM PE,HHonors Diamond,SPG Plat,PC Plat,SAS Silver

OK, found it, on page 63, footnote 3:

"Free first year's membership in Six Continents Club combined with a stay at any Intercontinental or Forum hotel: membership renewal for the following year is $US35."

Looks like it's a PE and GE benefit. Also, note that the $150 is the regular first year's fee, regular renewal is $50, so the only big saving is the first year. From then on the difference is $15 per year.


[This message has been edited by Hagbard Viking (edited 07-17-2003).]

Guess what happens...I got a call from 6 Continents saying that this promotion expired in August 2002. But it IS printed in the FD brochure and KL DID send me a fax to confirm the validity. 6C says KL should be responsible but that I must contact their headquarters and ask them to pay the bill. I doubt that they will but it's worth a try...

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KLM PE,HHonors Diamond,SPG Plat,PC Plat,SAS Silver

Figured it might have finished, Intercontinental in Montreal told me they were dropping FD miles a while back. Not sure if they have as I haven't stayed in one this year.

They charged me when I first signed up many years ago but I wrote a letter to the manager and got refunded. That was in the good old days when it only cost $30 US to renew each year. Mind you it's still worth it to me even for the late check out but I tend to stay at Hilton now cos of the Gold card that comes with my Amex. Now that IS a bargain ( free ) and it's got me free breakfasts, upgrades to Suites, free use of pool and health clubs, access to Executive lounge. Myself and Girlfriend at that time both had 20 GBP breakfasts for 7 days while at Hilton Dubai Creek last year while in a HUGE room with sweeping views over the creek and City. Great card.

Nigel