KLM Platinums, how would you handle this ****?
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Philly, Madrid
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,591
quote:
_________________________________
Originally posted by Ewan Mebabe:
Hey you paid your money and you took your chance. Cant see what you are belly aching about here...They agreed in contract to fly you from A to B at a price for economy.
__________________________________
You are absolutely correct, I paid for economy, and I was happy in economy until they "gave" me an upgrade, and then took it back. So I guess what I am belly aching about is that I felt the way they did it was inappropriate and rude, and I can assure you that you, or any other PE, GE, SE, non- elite or anyone would have been at least a little upset to be in my shoes at that time. That's what set me off; it wasn't where I ended up sitting, it was the way they treated me.
quote:
_________________________________
Originally posted by Ewan Mebabe:
In view of the fact you got a free PE I would keep your mouth shut and enjoy what benefits most of us have paid a fortune with KLM to earn
___________________________________
You are right in one aspect: I will keep my mouth shut because of what KLM has given me. But that's the only reason. If this happened on CO, where I did earn Platinum the hard way, I would surely follow up on this.
And could you please keep this fact in mind: "free" is not an accurate description. As Threy pointed out, any of us that were "given" platinum status did fly at least 12k service points in 6 months last year (I just did it with partners). And also, we all had already earned Platinum status on another airline, so none of us are just bums off the street who never flew before, and said "Hey, I'll try out that there KLM free platinum thing. I've always wanted to go on a plane ride anyway!"
My point: I do have some clue about how elite flyers should be treated based on the way I've been treated in the past.
[This message has been edited by srodr (edited 03-17-2003).]
_________________________________
Originally posted by Ewan Mebabe:
Hey you paid your money and you took your chance. Cant see what you are belly aching about here...They agreed in contract to fly you from A to B at a price for economy.
__________________________________
You are absolutely correct, I paid for economy, and I was happy in economy until they "gave" me an upgrade, and then took it back. So I guess what I am belly aching about is that I felt the way they did it was inappropriate and rude, and I can assure you that you, or any other PE, GE, SE, non- elite or anyone would have been at least a little upset to be in my shoes at that time. That's what set me off; it wasn't where I ended up sitting, it was the way they treated me.
quote:
_________________________________
Originally posted by Ewan Mebabe:
In view of the fact you got a free PE I would keep your mouth shut and enjoy what benefits most of us have paid a fortune with KLM to earn
___________________________________
You are right in one aspect: I will keep my mouth shut because of what KLM has given me. But that's the only reason. If this happened on CO, where I did earn Platinum the hard way, I would surely follow up on this.
And could you please keep this fact in mind: "free" is not an accurate description. As Threy pointed out, any of us that were "given" platinum status did fly at least 12k service points in 6 months last year (I just did it with partners). And also, we all had already earned Platinum status on another airline, so none of us are just bums off the street who never flew before, and said "Hey, I'll try out that there KLM free platinum thing. I've always wanted to go on a plane ride anyway!"
My point: I do have some clue about how elite flyers should be treated based on the way I've been treated in the past.
[This message has been edited by srodr (edited 03-17-2003).]
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Philly, Madrid
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,591
quote:
_______________________________
Originally posted by simonsmith:
I am slightly perplexed as to why you did not use some of your many miles to upgrade?
________________________________
Just to clarify, I didn't want to bore you with my story about how I had tried to upgrade via the phone with miles and couldn't, and then also tried again at JFK, but couldn't there either. If they had let me, I would have already been in first class from using miles. But I already posted my complaints about that process and didn't want to say it all again. I felt it was irrelevant to this episode as well.
quote:
_______________________________
Originally posted by simonsmith:
I can understand your upset at thinking you were going to get a free upgrade; in my eyes you are probably really less entitled to one than a silver elite etc.
________________________________
You may be right about being entitled less than certain other elites, but I think even just the 12k points that I needed for the match would have normally made me at least silver. But again, it wasn't that I was upset for feeling entitled to an upgrade. It was the way they handled it.
[This message has been edited by srodr (edited 03-17-2003).]
_______________________________
Originally posted by simonsmith:
I am slightly perplexed as to why you did not use some of your many miles to upgrade?
________________________________
Just to clarify, I didn't want to bore you with my story about how I had tried to upgrade via the phone with miles and couldn't, and then also tried again at JFK, but couldn't there either. If they had let me, I would have already been in first class from using miles. But I already posted my complaints about that process and didn't want to say it all again. I felt it was irrelevant to this episode as well.
quote:
_______________________________
Originally posted by simonsmith:
I can understand your upset at thinking you were going to get a free upgrade; in my eyes you are probably really less entitled to one than a silver elite etc.
________________________________
You may be right about being entitled less than certain other elites, but I think even just the 12k points that I needed for the match would have normally made me at least silver. But again, it wasn't that I was upset for feeling entitled to an upgrade. It was the way they handled it.
[This message has been edited by srodr (edited 03-17-2003).]
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Philly, Madrid
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,591
quote:
___________________________________
Originally posted by Mike Turnbull:
Do I assume, that each time that I've been moved 'up front,' that I too, must have upset somebody behind me ?
___________________________________
I'm sure not usually, but have you ever heard them offer an upgrade to someone behind you, then change their minds and give it to you instead? If so I'm sure you upset that person.
___________________________________
Originally posted by Mike Turnbull:
Do I assume, that each time that I've been moved 'up front,' that I too, must have upset somebody behind me ?
___________________________________
I'm sure not usually, but have you ever heard them offer an upgrade to someone behind you, then change their minds and give it to you instead? If so I'm sure you upset that person.
#19
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 153
This is a classic case of taking the ice cream off the baby. Its certainly not the first time. Three of us were bumped off a flight and then put on the next one in WBC. 2 of us were RW at the time and the third one got put back in Y. Truly normal for the KLM staff who handled it.
#20
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 92
I agree with the 'taking the ice cream ...' analogy; And if it had happened to me I'd be fuming too - so, srodr, I apologise if I sounded very unfriendly in my original posting.
However, as a seasoned frequent flyer yourself you'd probably agree with me that the more PEs KLM has, the lesser the chance each PE has at getting a good seat, and I count 11E as the best there is in Y. On a recent flight [of 13+ hours duration], I couldn't get a seat in C [I was told it was completely full], and struggled to get a decent seat in Y, so was perhaps 'annoyed' at you for wanting more, when you had been given so many 'gifts': the comps, then seats in rows 9 & 11.
------------------
KLM FD PE, BMI Gold, AA Platinum, UA Premier, Hilton HHonors Gold
[This message has been edited by WKS (edited 03-17-2003).]
However, as a seasoned frequent flyer yourself you'd probably agree with me that the more PEs KLM has, the lesser the chance each PE has at getting a good seat, and I count 11E as the best there is in Y. On a recent flight [of 13+ hours duration], I couldn't get a seat in C [I was told it was completely full], and struggled to get a decent seat in Y, so was perhaps 'annoyed' at you for wanting more, when you had been given so many 'gifts': the comps, then seats in rows 9 & 11.
------------------
KLM FD PE, BMI Gold, AA Platinum, UA Premier, Hilton HHonors Gold
[This message has been edited by WKS (edited 03-17-2003).]
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Philly, Madrid
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,591
quote:
___________________________________________
Originally posted by WKS:
You asked us KLM PE's how we would handle this - As a Platinum Elite who has earned every single one of my miles...my response would have to be, srodr: If you are that unhappy, then please do not fly KLM again, and let us real PEs have a greater chance at getting the good seats that we deserve.
___________________________________________
I do respect your response, and to be honest, the only reason that I haven't jumped ship yet is the "debt" that I feel to KLM. They gave me a lot to give them a chance, and I want to give them a fair chance to keep my business. So that is why I keep trying again, and will again this time too. But as I've said in the past, their "gift" to me did buy them a good number of "chances" to keep my business, but it isn't limitless. If I do reach my limit, I'll burn off my account and go on my way, but it wouldn't be right to not give them a fair shot, would it?
And for those PE's like you that have earned every one of your miles the hard way, I am really looking forward to experiencing whatever good things made you stick with KLM, because up until now I can't imagine why any of you would have stuck it out if your beginning experiences with KLM had been like mine. That is of course, unless they had given you a load of miles too!
And lastly, as you said in the first line of your quote above, I was hoping for more responses about how you would handle this situation if it happened to you. I did nothing at the time, and will do nothing now because of my situation, but I want to know what you would have done, not if you were me, but if you were you in the same kind of situation.
(Just for the record, I do understand all of you who were not happy to see KLM hand out all those free miles to us while they gave you nothing. If I were in your shoes I would have been completely enraged too, and probably found myself a new airline. But then again, even if you won't admit it, I'm sure that if any one of you had been on our side of the game, you would have taken the deal too)
___________________________________________
Originally posted by WKS:
You asked us KLM PE's how we would handle this - As a Platinum Elite who has earned every single one of my miles...my response would have to be, srodr: If you are that unhappy, then please do not fly KLM again, and let us real PEs have a greater chance at getting the good seats that we deserve.
___________________________________________
I do respect your response, and to be honest, the only reason that I haven't jumped ship yet is the "debt" that I feel to KLM. They gave me a lot to give them a chance, and I want to give them a fair chance to keep my business. So that is why I keep trying again, and will again this time too. But as I've said in the past, their "gift" to me did buy them a good number of "chances" to keep my business, but it isn't limitless. If I do reach my limit, I'll burn off my account and go on my way, but it wouldn't be right to not give them a fair shot, would it?
And for those PE's like you that have earned every one of your miles the hard way, I am really looking forward to experiencing whatever good things made you stick with KLM, because up until now I can't imagine why any of you would have stuck it out if your beginning experiences with KLM had been like mine. That is of course, unless they had given you a load of miles too!
And lastly, as you said in the first line of your quote above, I was hoping for more responses about how you would handle this situation if it happened to you. I did nothing at the time, and will do nothing now because of my situation, but I want to know what you would have done, not if you were me, but if you were you in the same kind of situation.
(Just for the record, I do understand all of you who were not happy to see KLM hand out all those free miles to us while they gave you nothing. If I were in your shoes I would have been completely enraged too, and probably found myself a new airline. But then again, even if you won't admit it, I'm sure that if any one of you had been on our side of the game, you would have taken the deal too)
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Philly, Madrid
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,591
WKS:
No apology necessary, as I said, I do understand why you "real PE´s" aren´t too fond of us "new PE's".
The one thing I can't understand is why you all seem to love 11E? It wasn´t the seat itself that I hated. It was the bathroom. I had earplugs in that filter out most of the high pitched noise, but not the lower ones. I kept hearing "BANG" every five minutes and couldn't figure it out until I took out the earplugs and realized that it was the bang that goes along with the beginning of every toilet flush. I got no sleep because of it, but as for the seat itself, it was fine.
No apology necessary, as I said, I do understand why you "real PE´s" aren´t too fond of us "new PE's".
The one thing I can't understand is why you all seem to love 11E? It wasn´t the seat itself that I hated. It was the bathroom. I had earplugs in that filter out most of the high pitched noise, but not the lower ones. I kept hearing "BANG" every five minutes and couldn't figure it out until I took out the earplugs and realized that it was the bang that goes along with the beginning of every toilet flush. I got no sleep because of it, but as for the seat itself, it was fine.
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Philly, Madrid
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,591
quote:
___________________________________________
Originally posted by Threy:
Beside that someone originally seated in row 11 is either an elite member as well or paid some serious $$$ to get there in 99 out of 100 cases....
____________________________________________
That is an excellent point Threy, and it makes me feel better to assume that he was most likely an elite too, and not just a buddy of the stewardess. Now if the flight attendant had only told me that...
___________________________________________
Originally posted by Threy:
Beside that someone originally seated in row 11 is either an elite member as well or paid some serious $$$ to get there in 99 out of 100 cases....
____________________________________________
That is an excellent point Threy, and it makes me feel better to assume that he was most likely an elite too, and not just a buddy of the stewardess. Now if the flight attendant had only told me that...
#24
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 92
I guess we are cross-posting here, srodr...and in our last posts, we've actually responded to each other's points.
As for why we keep flying with KLM to remain PE: a variety of reasons - Where I am based in the UK, KLM is the most convenient airline for me, in terms of where I need to get to; British Airways requires me to change planes at Heathrow, and Amsterdam is a far more decent place to transit. And although I have had my battles with KLM, & I have not been given loads of free miles by them, KLM has also been good to me in other ways e.g. in the days when they had more C class seats, I usually got a C seat [having paid Y] on my 13+ hour flights [At one stage, for a period of approximately 12 months, I got upgraded on every single long-haul KLM flight I took! Maybe I was lucky, maybe it was the route, which seemed constantly overbooked in Y].
I actually call them my 'love-hate' airline, and I am not blindly loyal; Apart from the generous PE mileage bonus, the perks seem less these days - I have struggled to get seats in C recently [for $$$, Miles or just plain lucky op-upgrades]; In fact I am currently shopping around to see if another airline/alliance could offer me a better experience, and have done quite a few miles with the Star Alliance recently.
So, srodr, thank you for your honesty, and I hope between them, my posts have answered all your queries....with no hard feelings on either side.
------------------
KLM FD PE, BMI Gold, AA Platinum, UA Premier, Hilton HHonors Gold
As for why we keep flying with KLM to remain PE: a variety of reasons - Where I am based in the UK, KLM is the most convenient airline for me, in terms of where I need to get to; British Airways requires me to change planes at Heathrow, and Amsterdam is a far more decent place to transit. And although I have had my battles with KLM, & I have not been given loads of free miles by them, KLM has also been good to me in other ways e.g. in the days when they had more C class seats, I usually got a C seat [having paid Y] on my 13+ hour flights [At one stage, for a period of approximately 12 months, I got upgraded on every single long-haul KLM flight I took! Maybe I was lucky, maybe it was the route, which seemed constantly overbooked in Y].
I actually call them my 'love-hate' airline, and I am not blindly loyal; Apart from the generous PE mileage bonus, the perks seem less these days - I have struggled to get seats in C recently [for $$$, Miles or just plain lucky op-upgrades]; In fact I am currently shopping around to see if another airline/alliance could offer me a better experience, and have done quite a few miles with the Star Alliance recently.
So, srodr, thank you for your honesty, and I hope between them, my posts have answered all your queries....with no hard feelings on either side.
------------------
KLM FD PE, BMI Gold, AA Platinum, UA Premier, Hilton HHonors Gold
#25
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cheltenham
Programs: KLM Plat for Life , BA Gold, HH Silver, (Other half Diamond), IHG Gold
Posts: 2,395
I disagree with Threy about the miles given not being free. You only have to look at the thread about this to see how surprised and thrilled people were to recieve them. They most definitely a free gift.
I must admit however that the way that the crew handled this was awful and if you have some names it is probably worth writing. Do not expect to get much of a response though I am afraid.
Being a doctor I have been called on flights 4 times this year to help out. On each time I had to fill in an incident form and was promised by the Captain in one instance I would get some Miles for my trouble. Not once did I recieve an automatic letter of thanks let alone any miles so I wrote and was simply told thanks but the reports were never passed on by the crew. Goodness knows where all that patient information has gone.
I dont think communication is that great!
I must admit however that the way that the crew handled this was awful and if you have some names it is probably worth writing. Do not expect to get much of a response though I am afraid.
Being a doctor I have been called on flights 4 times this year to help out. On each time I had to fill in an incident form and was promised by the Captain in one instance I would get some Miles for my trouble. Not once did I recieve an automatic letter of thanks let alone any miles so I wrote and was simply told thanks but the reports were never passed on by the crew. Goodness knows where all that patient information has gone.
I dont think communication is that great!
#26
Suspended
Join Date: May 2001
Location: DUS
Posts: 4,004
We all know that KLM has reduced the number of WBC seats siginificantly and WKS made a good point, destinations with only one daily flight (especially in Asia ) seems to be full these days upfront....
Beside that the comped Royal Wing/Plat Elite status is only good until 02/04 which means you would keep Gold until 02/05.If you don`t fly KLM enough until then, you will not be able to access the extra award seats for Gold and Plat Elites...
We all agree that the situation was handled very poorly by the KLM staff and I think a short letter explaning the whole situation should be sent to Amsterdam, just letting them know what went wrong.
I believe a short excuse from the purser or FA would very often solve a conflict that would otherwise result in an exchange of letters later on, so it is basicly in KLM`s interest as well to solve the situation right on the spot...
The ironic thing after all, I guess all of us have a "love and hate" relation with KLM and AMS is able to compensate much of the hate.Connecting at Schiphol is really so convenient that I often forget about the negative aspects when I am in the process of booking a flight...
Beside that the comped Royal Wing/Plat Elite status is only good until 02/04 which means you would keep Gold until 02/05.If you don`t fly KLM enough until then, you will not be able to access the extra award seats for Gold and Plat Elites...
We all agree that the situation was handled very poorly by the KLM staff and I think a short letter explaning the whole situation should be sent to Amsterdam, just letting them know what went wrong.
I believe a short excuse from the purser or FA would very often solve a conflict that would otherwise result in an exchange of letters later on, so it is basicly in KLM`s interest as well to solve the situation right on the spot...
The ironic thing after all, I guess all of us have a "love and hate" relation with KLM and AMS is able to compensate much of the hate.Connecting at Schiphol is really so convenient that I often forget about the negative aspects when I am in the process of booking a flight...
#27
Suspended
Join Date: May 2001
Location: DUS
Posts: 4,004
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by simonsmith:
I dont think communication is that great!</font>
I dont think communication is that great!</font>
You simply don`t get an answer, which is the worst form of answering a complaint or comment.I am pretty sure that most of us would be more satisfied with a short letter rejecting any from of compensation instead of getting nada, nix, zippo....
I know that KLM had huge problems hiring enough staff for a lot of departments during the booming years of the ( dutch ) economy , where the unemployment rate in the Amsterdam area was really low, but nowadays they should be able to hire enough people, maybe even more important, to train their staff sufficiently.
Based on my observations, I only got one response to a letter in the last 24 months or so and I am still trying to get miles for a promotion from 2001 !!!
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Threy:
AMS is able to compensate much of the hate.Connecting at Schiphol is really so convenient</font>
AMS is able to compensate much of the hate.Connecting at Schiphol is really so convenient</font>
johan
#29
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Jersey Isle
Programs: BA Gold, BMI Gold, LH Senator, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,175
Whether comped or not, full fare or note, etc is not as important. You gave up your seat upon a request and ultimately got screwed twice. Just bad luck but you should have spoken up more on board.
Everybody wants to get upgraded and of course it is never our God given right to be but accept it as a pleasant surprise when it happens. KLM attendants simply handled it very sloppy. I would have asked for the purser and head flight attendant and explain the whole situation. You changed seats when requested, was offered an upgrade and lost it and ultimately did not get your original seat back. Don´t make demands, just place it to their attention as I am sure he would have apologized and have tried to accomodate you the best possible. And of course, take down names and start a paper trail to KLM if of course you consider it worth pursuing. After the flight, I really do not think there is much you can expect from them.
With all of the discuss of war and everything else going on, I have been looking for a non-US carrier and happy KLM provided us with the opportunity to try their airline and program. For now, I have been very pleased and plan on using them more in the near future, especially with Business class fares earning double Q points and half the $$ of US carriers when buying from Europe!
------------------
"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."
Everybody wants to get upgraded and of course it is never our God given right to be but accept it as a pleasant surprise when it happens. KLM attendants simply handled it very sloppy. I would have asked for the purser and head flight attendant and explain the whole situation. You changed seats when requested, was offered an upgrade and lost it and ultimately did not get your original seat back. Don´t make demands, just place it to their attention as I am sure he would have apologized and have tried to accomodate you the best possible. And of course, take down names and start a paper trail to KLM if of course you consider it worth pursuing. After the flight, I really do not think there is much you can expect from them.
With all of the discuss of war and everything else going on, I have been looking for a non-US carrier and happy KLM provided us with the opportunity to try their airline and program. For now, I have been very pleased and plan on using them more in the near future, especially with Business class fares earning double Q points and half the $$ of US carriers when buying from Europe!
------------------
"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."
#30
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Reutlingen, Germany
Programs: LH FTL, UA 1K MM, Lifetime Marriott Platinum, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 558
I just remember when the NW flight FRA - DTT was oversold. I accepted rerouting via AMS, as they promised to upgrade me on the AMS-DTT leg.
When I arrived at the gate the agent told me that all upgrades have been processed already and business class was full by now - I ended up in Economy.
A quick e-mail to Customer Relations was answered the same day. They gave me enough miles for one transatlantic upgrade.
If you feel treated wrong, let them know, and see what happens
When I arrived at the gate the agent told me that all upgrades have been processed already and business class was full by now - I ended up in Economy.
A quick e-mail to Customer Relations was answered the same day. They gave me enough miles for one transatlantic upgrade.
If you feel treated wrong, let them know, and see what happens