"Flexible" Europe Select

Old Nov 10, 06, 4:29 am
  #1  
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"Flexible" Europe Select

This morning on my flight TLS/AMS, the flexible Europe Select border (curtains and red to blue head seats tissues) was taking 9 rows (45 seats on a Fokker 100), Y taking the balance (more or less 55). There were about 13 PAX in Europe Select, and about 50 in Y. At least 3 complete rows of seats was left empty in the "blue" zone, whilst it was quite packed in the red one.

Actually, in this flight that I take at least twice a month for years, I never saw this "border" at the same place. I have no idea of who takes this decision. There is obviously for me no point thinking that the comfort of the ones who have payed so much to use same seats and have a newspaper offered could be neglected. But on the other hand, I'm in trouble to figure out why KL wants they Y passengers to feel uncomfortable, even if the aircraft is not full

A few years ago (nothing to see with merging), when I was asked why I was flying KL, I had a number of replies. The two ones remaining are rates, and Schipol. Should I fly Asia, where rates are more or less the same, rather than North America, I would have moved all my flights to AF, even with CDG... particularly for the accumulation of these "small" frustrations (maintenance, delays, lowering service...)
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Old Nov 10, 06, 8:23 am
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Agreed. Even though I am only an infrequent witness of the wonders of the Fokker experience I find their C product very much below par.

Also, have you ever seen anyone actually ACCEPTING a newspaper when being offered one before take-off? Until this day I haven't!

Kind regards,
Maurits
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Old Nov 10, 06, 10:40 pm
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Originally Posted by Maurits
Also, have you ever seen anyone actually ACCEPTING a newspaper when being offered one before take-off? Until this day I haven't!

Kind regards,
Maurits
Actually, I did ; but this flight is expected to take off quite early (6:10 am) ; even if I never experienced leaving on time, it's generally before newspaper's store opening...
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Old Nov 11, 06, 1:21 am
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Flexible cabins in European fleets is nothing new, rather more the industry standard.
E.g. AF uses convertible seats, for J-class they have a 2-2 seating but these can easily be changed to 3-3 seating.
Then they have the "middle" cabin (Tempo Challenge) with same seats as in back (3-3) but with J-class catering.
And finally the Y-class cabin with minimal catering.
The curtains move up and down according to flight loads.

Usually x-days/hours before departure the desired configuration is chosen and frozen in the systems. The ground engineers adjust the curtains accordingly.

If you talk about wanting to promote your front/middle cabins, it makes sense to move the curtains as far back as possible, really cramming the pax in like sardines in Y. That could have happened on your flight?

Usually it's the other way around on KL is my experience!
On Europe Select all seats are occupied whilst in Y there are ample empty seats.
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Old Nov 11, 06, 8:02 am
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Earlier in the week I flew CPH-AMS. The divider was between rows 3 and 4, but on the outward leg it had been further back. Why it was moved forward in CPH is a mystery. The three pax in ES each had a row to themselves, and the load in Y was not even 50%.

Johan
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Old Nov 11, 06, 8:47 am
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This is because the Operations Control Centre at Schiphol decides the "commercial" configuration before the flight opens for check-in.
The ground engineer moves curtain accordingly, full or not.
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Old Nov 11, 06, 12:10 pm
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Originally Posted by jetfan
This is because the Operations Control Centre at Schiphol decides the "commercial" configuration before the flight opens for check-in.
The ground engineer moves curtain accordingly, full or not.
I've already seen a couple of times at least FA moving the curtain in the cabin...
The point was also they I couldn't understand why reserving half of a cabin in ES, did you already see this ?
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Old Nov 11, 06, 1:42 pm
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Originally Posted by pinkcity
I've already seen a couple of times at least FA moving the curtain in the cabin...
The point was also they I couldn't understand why reserving half of a cabin in ES, did you already see this ?
Even when the FA moves the curtain, the location was already decided before OLCI opens. Otherwise you'll end up with moving lots of people that are already checked-in around...

Of course it is easier not to move the curtain unneeded, so I'd expect it to be set to a pre-determined location at AMS (by an engineer probably), which is suitable both for the outbound and return flight. That could lead to a nearly empty ES cabin, as the space was only needed in the other direction.
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Old Nov 12, 06, 5:30 am
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Decisions pertaining to the cabin dividers are typically taken by Operations Control Center and a number of factors are taken into account. Even though cabin configurations are normally frozen a couple of days before the flights is due to operate, this configuration remains dynamic and can still be changed for a number of reasons.

What might look like illogical cabin configurations is often determined flow control of the aircraft through the network and operational irregularities followed by aircraft swaps may impact these flows. The operations control center keeps track of all of these issues and many more and makes any decision necessary to preserve the stability of the operation. As such, a given cabin setup can often be determined by a number of parameters and is often not as absurd as it seems if one would have access to all the date involved.
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