Upgrading no more! Write to FD!!
 

Hi, as most of us know KLM has changed it's rule on which tickets can be upgraded. From June on you can only upgrade B and S class tickets. Here we are, stuck with all those miles and now we are being forced to buy expensive tickets allowing us to upgrade.

My suggestion is that we should write.Will that work? Well they have reversed other impopular rules like the maximum KG per suit case to the US....

So give it a try, I did!

This lady is the boss of the FD programme:

edited out email adress; ralfkrippner, flyertalk KLM moderator

And yes, www.unfairklm.com is still active!

You can reach me at [email protected]

You are aware that posting somebody else's email address is against the Guidelines & Rules, even when the address is publicly available via Google or so:

And fortunately there are many other options to spend your miles, otherwise - donate them to AirCares, but hurry up! I don't see them in the partner list of Flying Blue :rolleyes:

Use your miles to buy business class award tickets instead of upgrading.
On full flights you can use double miles and still upgrade.
At least the chance of getting business class is higher now that one cannot upgrade from every fare.
So I disagree that the miles are worthless.

And publishing someone's email address on this site is not the way to go.
Grow up.

As a NW PE for a number of years, I am glad this is ending. I am not sure why NW agreed to such different upgrading rules for FD. With FD folks upgrading from anyfare, it was very dificult for WP elites to get upgrades even on on B or Y fare. KLM can do anything it wants on its metal but this benefit extended to NW metal also. However, I understand it's hard to give up a benifit you are used to, and feel cheated when you have to regardless of the fact that it makes the pot equally accessible to WP elites. Why can't you buy a WBC fare or an award ticket like most of us do since we can't be sure of being upgraded with miles.

Well... I can't say I'm happy. I've been using my miles almost exclusively for upgrades - a good way of travelling in comfort at an affordable fare while still earning miles to keep my status. I don't think award tickets are good value, especially not on short-haul routes where KLM's taxes and charges are often more than the entire fare charged by other carriers.

But, having said that, I understand the sentiments espressed by those who will now find it easier to get upgraded as there will be less demand, and while I am disappointed at the loss of yet another perk I realise there is no point in jumping up and down about it.

Here are some ideas that FB should perhaps consider:

1) Allow those on cheap tickets to upgrade, but charge them more - this would be one way of regulating demand

2) Allow those on cheap tickets to upgrade on a standby basis - surely it must be better to relieve someone of a few thousand miles than to have to op-upgrade passengers for free

3) Enable those on the more expensive fares to upgrade at the time of booking. If I could buy an expensive Economy ticket and be guaranteed an upgrade at the time of booking I'd consider it - but if I have to buy an expensive Economy ticket with no guarantee of an upgrade I'd rather not gamble a few hundred pounds but buy a cheaper ticket instead.

That'd actually make a huge difference. It's one of the reasons I often book on BA, where you have a concurrent "Book & Upgrade" function. So I end up buying more expensive tickets from BA because I am guaranteed an upgrade. How hard could it be to implement? Still, I'd rather have the Book & Upgrade function from the cheapest fares too. :)

1. As I said before, KLM can do anything it wants to do for it's elites on it's own metal. But if NW allowed this for FD/FB elites on NW metal it still afects ability of those on higher fares to upgrade to WBC if those seats have been snappede up by lower fare FD/FB elites.
2. Allowing people on cheaper fares to upgrade to WBC on a standby basis is a good idea from the travellers' perspective. If this were to happen, there would be many people congregating for upgrades on standby basis at the gate, thereby creating confusion as well as aggravation for gate agents and dispointment for the traverls unable to score a standby upgrade, not to mention the fact that it does, in way, lowers the perceived value of what the airline considers to be a premium product. OP-Up hopefuls will create the same problem too. OP-ups give airline a tool that they can use at their dscretion without having to contend with numerous standby upgrade hopefuls. As the phrase suggests Op-Up is done as a matter of operational convenience and our miles, which maybe valuable to us, are not money to the airline.
3. What is your idea of an expensive fare? Is B expensive for you? For NW it is still a dsicounted economy fare. Allowing a B fare to upgrade at the time of booking, which can be done upto a year in advance, diminishes the number of WPC fares the airline can sell at much higher business class fares. Why would the airline want to do that? Upgrades to WBC are awards and are capacity controlled just as award tickets.

This is not how it worked - upgrade availability was not the same for KL and NW FF'ers, especially on NW flights NW FF'ers had better availability. What you see is not what you get.

What are you talking about? Are you talking about upgrades to WBC on transatlantic and trnspacific flights? or are you talking about FC on domestic NW flights?

Until about a year ago, WBC upgrades for FD PEs on KL metal were not subject to any capacity controls whatsoever. If there was a seat available, you would get it. This was an unpublished benefit.

johan

Sorry folks, but I had to delete the email adress out of the OP's post.

However I would like to add KLM FD's Fax number as published on their webpage for any complaints:

+31-(0)20-6488537


ralfkrippner, flyertalk KLM moderator

Those who disagree with me fly on company expenses. Wanna bet?
 

Ha, ha, ha this is soooo funny. Those agreeing that it is a good thing that those cheap tickets are not upgradable anymore are those who fly on other people money. Wanna make a bet? Next time you book a flight imagine what it would be like if that would be on your account!? And yes, I fly a 100.000+ miles a year on my own expenses.

If it would be on your account you would most likely act differently.

ps I disagree about posting an email on this site because she works for KLM and her email address is freely available. As a matter of fact, she send an email to thousands of Platinum members two weeks ago.

This is correct - at NW upgrading was was based on ticket fare and not on status. At KLM it was based on status and not on fare (i..e the other way round). Besides - don't think that partner upgrades and awards are free for the airline providing them (or lounge access, etc.) These perks come at a price - a price NW was not willing to pay for its best customers - but KLM was. No longer it seems. Next thing to go will be one way awards - I give that about 6 months.

Ever heard of something called spam???

If you publish an email address on a web site that email address will get picked up by address harvesting robots. If you want to publish your own email address and expose yourself to spam that's up to you. But you shouldn't do it to others.

You seem to have a very narrow definition of what "standby" means. "Standby" doesn't necessarily just mean "standing by at the gate". The airline I used to work for had standby fares which could be provisionally reserved from 24 hours before departure and were subject to final confirmation at check-in.

KLM already has a system of day-of-departure upgrades at airports with KLM-run lounges - your upgrade gets confirmed in the lounge unless there are fewer than two seats left in Business Class in which case you are provisionally upgraded subject to confirmation at the gate once check-in has closed. This system could be widened to other airports, or - if there was a 24 hour helpdesk - passengers could request upgrades by phone on the day of departure which would then be confirmed at check-in. It really shouldn't be that difficult to put a system into place which would allow last-minute upgrades without having to cause aggravation for gate agents.

As I said before, what KLM did on it's own metal for its elites is between the airline and its frequent fliers. But when you expect the same benefit on NW metal when I don't get that benefit myself, I have a problem with that. What makes you think a NW elite would like to see FD/FB elite getting upgraded on a NW flight on a $400 fare on an 8-13 hour flight when he/she himself could not get upgraded even on a B or a higher fare because all WBC flights had been snatched, or that someone with $1000 M fare on a transatlantic flight could not get upgraded? Now I have an equal chance of being upgraded on NW and KLM flights. FD elites have lost an unpublished benefit we never had even on NW metal but I am shedding no tears. My comments pertian only to the benefit in question on NW metal.

Definition of standby has changed over the years. As in use today, standby is not the same thing as day of departure. If you meant day of departure, you should have said so.

Ha Ha, you lose.
 

How much do you wanna bet that not every one who disagrees with you flies on company money? It's funny how egocentric your opinions are. I maintain a Platinum and 3 Golds. Even the thee golds trump the number of miles flown by you. So there. :D

Hmm . . . . I have just re-read my post twice, but can not find any reference to NW, let alone any benefits I allegedly expect. All I did was provide some information on benefits previously offered by KL.

I have never flown NW, nor do I have any reason to believe that I shall want to do so in the foreseeable future. What benefits that airline may or may not choose to offer its own or other airlines' elites is completely irrelevant to me. You may therefore rest assured that I shall not attempt to deprive you of any upgrades to which you believe you are more entitled than I am.

What makes you think I ever thought that? You may wish to attempt to read my post again, slowly and carefully. It is all of three sentences long and contains only a few words of more than two syllables, so it shouldn't be too difficult to comprehend. If you are successful, you will discover that I nowhere mention NW, its elites, or what I think. I provided a simple statement of fact, nothing else.

Your belief is based on the assumption that availability is the same for members of all partner programs. You may well be mistaken. Many airlines have larger allocations for members of their own programs.

Being a generous person, I hope that you will secure all the upgrades your heart desires, and trust that you will enjoy your flights even more than usual in the secure knowledge that your seat was not given to a less deserving passenger.

johan

To avoid future misunderstandings, we can perhaps all agree on this definition :

"Of, relating to, or waiting for unreserved travel space that is made available by an airline only shortly before departure: standby passengers." (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2004)

johan

Funny thing johan but I wondered that as well.

Other funny thing as well is that whenever I have searched on FD for C awards I can't recall ever having being offered any on NW metal, thay have always been on KLM metal!

pmcg

I believe that this post should have ben dircted at the poster who was confused about and thought that the day of the departure upgrade would be a standby upgrade evebn if it was done hours before departure.

When I used "you" I did not mean to imply you. I should have used the third person pronoun one so as to be clearer. I have seen posts in the past where poster(s) was(were) complaining about having their upgrade cancelled NW repeatedly when KLM had upgraded her as being ufair. Since I have neither read FD nor FB rules, I do not know whether the benefit was extended to NW flights but the posters in referred to certainly expected it, and continued to have KLM reinstate the upgrade. Before you jump to say that but NW did not allow it, I should point out that one poster claimed that one NW specific agent was mean and was instrumental in having her upgrade cancelled. There was something similar about a Gold poster about NW domestic FC upgrades. My memory is a bit vague at this point, but it's posts with this tone that lead one to think that FD members were getting upgrades on NW metal.

See my response above. There are certain people in any programme who like to work around the system or want to push a benefit beyond the limits of applicability. That would be the case, if the WBC upgrades were not applicable to FD members on NW metal. Whether you fly NW or not is not relevant to me, es epcially if you abide by the rules and do not throw temper tantrums as some posters seemed to have indicated in their post.

Have you never seen the use of "you" as applying to a third person in general, or in the sense collective you? You may wish to re read my post with the knowledge of the sense in which I used "you". If you wish, you may mentally replace you in that post by one, where you felt you were being personally implicated. There are definitely some people who felt that the benefit wasllowed even on NW metal and threw tamper tantrums when they couldn't get it.

My belief is based on what I have read in FD forum.

There is no need to escalate this discussion to sarcasm. I hope you understand how I used the pronoun "you". Nothing I said was intended to implicate you personally. I believe you assumed you were personally being blamed. You were not.

johan[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=johan rebel]

Pleeeeeeease Johann, for the sake of all others, don't answer!

Any fare NW/KLM Upgrade. Any Good?
 

You folks seem to know all about KLM & NWA upgrade policies. Would anyone be able to help me out ? I've got an anyfare upgrade to Europe that expires on 5/22. I'm leaving JFK on 5/21 to WAW through AMS. The 800# NWA csr has advised me that my $750 "consolidator's" ticket is not a "published fare" eligible for an upgrade. Is there any way that I can use this upgrade? Should I "rush" the ticket counter at JFK on the day of departure or try to deal with
with this by telephone. ALL SUGGESTIONS ARE APPRECIATED AND THE FIRST WINNING ANSWER WILL RECEIVE A $50 NW TCV FROM ME THAT EXPIRES 12/05. ;)

Upgrading from B and S fare only is a reduction of benefits for KL FF'ers. There need not be any discussion about it. Most people will be very angry about it, but just remember that it is the carriers decision to do this and it is their right to do so!

As a frequent KL pax i am happy about it! Dont shoot me :eek: , but I live in Asia and never had a chance to join FD. However, using my miles for upgrades from those mentioned B & S fares on KL as a NW WP Asia GE is impossible. (Pick any date, call WP in HKG any give it a try) . This is due KL and FD, despite the fact that KL co-manages WP Asia.

Dont blame me for looking forward to spending my miles with a little more ease.

You know your opinion is not very popular here.

It is not going to be easier for you to upgrade (especially since you are a GE) - so enjoy your glee while it lasts.

The last thing I want is a yes-no argument, but please indulge me;
Why would it not get easier for WP Asia members, when it seems FD members have much less trouble.
The elimination of the 'FD Platinum army' and the removal of any fare upgardes will create more availibility. If i am wrong please tell me why.

On your other 2 points. In WP miles have to be flown to reach status, unlike FD, as you very well know and the last thing I want to do is 'glee' about it. It is very sad for FD menbers that this great aspect will be lost.

Glee? :rolleyes: It's so childish to put it in these terms. If you lose the benfeit, I will neither be sorry, nor will I gloat. On the otherhand if you continue to enjoy it, I will be irritated, but I won't lose any sleep over it.