JOUY31

I am afraid I don't know that much about FD

NickB

In terms of awards, Europe-North America is the same on both programmes, but for other destinations, AF is usually cheaper.
All the figures below are for return awards ex Europe in eco and biz. For AF, the third category is first (espace premiere) where available. For KL, there is, of course, no first class.

AF
Europe zone 2 (F,BE,D,UK,IRL,NL,CH): 20K/30K
Europe zone 3 (rest of western Europe): 25K/35K
Eastern and Central Europe/North Africa: 30K/45K
Israel/Middle East: 40K/60K/80K
Mexico/USA.Canada: 50K/80K/100K
Africa (rest)/India: 70K/110K/140K
Carribean/Seychelles: 60K/120K (reduced to 80K for Alize cabin)
South America/Asia-Pacific: 80K/120K/160K

KL
Europe: 25K/45K
North Africa/Middle East: 50K/90K
Africa (rest): 80K/125K
Indian subcontinent: 80K/120K
North and Central America: 50K/80K
South America: 85K/160K
Far East: 100K/150K
Australia/NZ: 120K/180K

the BIG disadvantage of AF is the impossiblity to upgrade from lower fares (I have not included the figures for these, as really the two are simply not comparable).

AF has generally fewer promotions throughout the year than KL's webawards, although the duo promotions (viz. two persons travel for the price of one award) are attractive if you normally travel with a companion.

For non-French residents, the award includes the connection to Paris from anywhere in Europe.
The KL programme is entirely region-based, so the connecting flights from Europe are also included.

cityroamer

NickB: Nice summary! But it also means FD miles = AF miles...

Does that mean we can fly first Australia-Europe? I assume this would be on Korean/AF? That would be a pretty good deal

Would you also know the mileage requirement for upgrades? Unfortunately it is not possible to upgrade Malaysian Airways flights between AUS & KL with FD miles. Does AF allow to upgrade partner flights (e.g. Korean)?

Cheers.

apirchik

How is is today (as of June 1st) when requesting AF rewards on KL miles - is it according to KL or AF charts?

cityroamer

I just thought this assumption has to be made to actually compare the award 'costs'. I don't have an idea if AF accepts the FD miles 1 to 1 and additionally if you are currently getting an equal amount of miles flying AF or KL. You would have to consider status, bonus etc. etc. etc.

Hopefully somebody can comment...

NickB

Currently, you can order awards on AF using FD miles in eco and biz (not in first class). The applicable 'tariff' is that of FD.
You also earn FD miles on AF and, again, the applicable number of miles is the FD one. Both are mileage based, but you get differences on minimum miles, CoS and Elite bonuses.
AFAIK, you will not get extra FD miles for flights flown in first (i.e. these are treated the same as business class).

One-way, one-class upgrades on F+ are half the miles of a return economy class award (in other words, they cost the same as an economy class award ticket)
but
you can officially only upgrade from a full fare ticket (in practice AF K class is also apparently allowed) and on AF metal only. So a very poor deal compared to FD.

So, if you want to use your FD miles to upgrade, order your upgrades this year, while FD still exists.

If you intend to use your miles for a non-upgrade award ticket next year, it would probably make sense to wait for the merger if you can, as award tickets are likely to be cheaper.

I would expect the conversion to be 1 FD mile = 1 F+ mile = 1 whatever the new programme currency will be.

hfly

Af has never come close to winning a Freddie, as AFhas an inferior programme, if they merge them (as it seems they will) it should be at least 1.5 AF miles for each KLM mile.

NickB

Well, I would not personally regard the freddies as a reliable guide to the value of a programme (remember when Eurobonus used to sweep freddies with a very undistinguished programme?) but you are dead right that AF's programme is in most respects c..p compared to FD.

But the likelihood of a 1.5=1 match is pie in the sky, IMHO and, in any event, this is not the real issue. The problem with F+ is not the number of miles/cost of awards, which is fine. It is the other features (upgrades from all fares, etc...).

I would have no problem with a 1=1 match. What I will have problems with are the features, and in particular the poor elite recognition.

Cris L

But of course ALL Air France passengers are elite - otheriwse they'd be flying some other non FREANCH airline.....

InIndiana

What's going to happen to the NW/KL world split? Will WorldPerks suddently be open to residents from everywhere once KL and AF merge the program?

cityroamer

Well, I just hope I can get award flights AUS-Europe on AF/Korean. If this is the case, it's seems to be worth to wait until next year. Cost of 160' in first instead 180' in business is certainly more attractive.

I guessed that upgrades are possible only on AF Metal.
I was hoping to get some good First options between AUS and Europe. But it seems to be the same as with LH. Nice flight from BKK to Europe in LH-First, but the flight AUS to BKK on Thai-Business is far from pleasant.
Might as weel stick with BA/QF.

BTW, we are celebrating today the Queens birthday. There is still benefit to be a 'descendant' of the 'royal country up north'

apirchik

The main reason that KL is so popular at the Freddies over the past 2 years is because they gave away millions of miles in that famous mile match promo in early 2002. It's not all because of the great program they have (it's not bad but there are better ones out there).

Since AF rewards are lower than KL in most cases, you will never get a ratio in favor of KL. At most you will get a 1 for 1.

Another point to keep in mind is that AF is the strong side in this merger.

YVR Cockroach

Haven't been keeping up with developments but is it worth keeping PE or not? I need 50k service miles. Do have nearly 700k miles in my account.

felis

[/QUOTE]Since AF rewards are lower than KL in most cases, you will never get a ratio in favor of KL. At most you will get a 1 for 1.

Another point to keep in mind is that AF is the strong side in this merger.[/QUOTE]

I fear you are right on both items.
I do not expect more than 1 for 1.

My guess is that AF will 'give' 5000 or 10 000 welcome bonus to merging flying dutchmen.... in the so-called 'new' program.

Anyway, the merge is compulsory, you have no other solution.

Will AF take this opportunity to improve (lot of room for that) the upgrades ? This would be rather good. But do not forget that there are very few business seats on natinal flights, that french participants do not get qualifying miles on national flights, and that AF try to minimize as much as possible benefits of their program.

Do not forget also that upgrade -as seen by AF- is 'when we want to whom we want', and that there is no real rule for this.

Except the duo offers, the F+ program is unfortunately not really attractive.

JOUY31

Since AF rewards are lower than KL in most cases, you will never get a ratio in favor of KL. At most you will get a 1 for 1.

Another point to keep in mind is that AF is the strong side in this merger.[/QUOTE]

My guess is that AF will 'give' 5000 or 10 000 welcome bonus to merging flying dutchmen.... in the so-called 'new' program.

But do not forget that there are very few business seats on natinal flights, that french participants do not get qualifying miles on national flights, and that AF try to minimize as much as possible benefits of their program.
[/QUOTE]

Dear Felis,

Just two minor points :
- as of end of October, last year, business class is no longer available on French domestic flights
- French F+ members do get qualifying miles on domestic flights (I get them all the time), although, with the introduction of new low fares, the generous 1,000 miles awarded can go down to 250 miles, and in the case of N class domestic fares, to 0. What the French F+ members do not have is that domestic flight SEGMENTS are not taken into account into for segment based qualification.

Cheers