Non-authorised access to cockpit
 

>During taxi a guy was moved up from economy, and shortly afterwards went up to the cockpit to ride the jumpseat for takeoff. The guy was nice enough but was flying nonrev (crew family member) and upgraded to the last remaining empty PE seat.<
Is this normal for KLM? Allowing a family member into the cockpit for the duration of the takeoff?
I would have thought that only authorised personnel were allowed in the cockpit...

Non-authorised access to cockpit
 

Have seen this once, and I do not like it at all. Clear safety risk in my book.

I hate to be the snitch but I’d report it. I find it incredibly unprofessional, not to mention dangerous.

Not sure about KL specifically but many European airlines do allow visitors in the cockpit, provided it's someone the crew knows. I don't really see a safety issue here if it's done responsibly (i.e. not putting kids in a pilot seat similar great ideas).

It's very common practice with most non-US airlines, with the exception for flights to USA.

IME while AF/hop used to welcome their frequent flyers in the cockpit, it's way less frequent since the "magic mushroom" incident.

And while you sometimes see people who look like F&F get a joyride on KL, I've never, ever crossed the door on their aircraft while flying. Would be curious to know if anyone here paid the pilots a visit on KL based on their status only ?

I thought this was totally forbidden, especially after the GermanWings tragedy.

The Germanwings story is not due to extra visitor in the cockpit but rather the opposite situation (not enough people in the cockpit ;)).

Not to go too far off topic, but at Lufthansa the decision is ultimately up to the Captain, and if they have family members/friends on board, I don’t see much of a risk. However, it is forbidden on certain routes (including those to the United States).

Not sure what the KLM policy is, but have seen it a couple of times on short haul.

Non-authorised access to cockpit
 

The Catering 2021 thread recently included a comment about a crew family member being allowed access to the cockpit during takeoff...
>During taxi a guy was moved up from economy, and shortly afterwards went up to the cockpit to ride the jumpseat for takeoff. The guy was nice enough but was flying nonrev (crew family member) and upgraded to the last remaining empty PE seat.<

I was astonished when reading this. That non-authorised relatives and friends were allowed into the cockpit on the whim of the captain. Especially after tragedies such as 9/11 and GermanWings, where cockpit access was supposedly tightened up.
I would have thought that only authorised personnel were allowed in the cockpit...
The risk element this introduces is wide-ranging: from the friend being an irritating "back seat driver" who interferes with the normal takeoff workflow of the crew, to one who has a panic attack or a drunken or psychotic incident.
Even a minor incident/aborted takeoff could seriously harm KLM's reputation and financial standing.

It boils down to the KL rulebook because
1- there are no EU regulations preventing visitors in cockpit
2- if the captain grants someone access to the cockpit, they are by definition "authorized"

As mentioned in the other thread, the Germanwings accident would have been prevented by MORE people in the cockpit, not fewer. So it's not even sure whether having pax in jumpseat is a net gain or loss, risk-wise.

And it's besides the point: cockpit visit rules follow regulations, not passengers feelings about them - and that's a good thing.

I have been in a KL cockpit twice, though really long ago:
- one time around 2007, flying back from the UK the captain operating the flight asked if I wanted to sit in the cockpit for the duration of the flight. He is a family friend.

- the second time was on a CGK-KUL flight also around the same time. The crew recognized me from the going flight 2 days before and I was allowed to visit the cockpit during the flight.

It does depend on if you know the crew and also on the route. I understand that like the US there are rules about passengers being in the cockpit.

Not long ago I was on an AF long-haul from SE Asia and was sat in the first row aisle seat (the old NEV4 seats on a B77W), so could watch the comings and goings pre-flight in the forward area. A young woman which must have been the wife/GF of the first officer going by the behaviour entered the cockpit before taxing and never saw her exit up to when the curtain was drawn. The wife of the captain and a very young girl went up to the flight crew rest cabin and their other young girl (estimate about 10yrs old) sat in the cabin crew seat next between Door L1 and a flight attendent for taxi/take-off. Not once during the flight did they enter the J cabin so must have spent the enire flight in the cockpit/forward crew rest cabin. Same for the landing.
Never before/since seen non-crew do such things on any airline and never knew that was allowed.

Look, the event you want to cite is probably PSA 1771 or maybe FedEx 705, but, to be honest, the first case shows that it's enough to bring a gun on board, and the second shows that it's not enough to have a jumpseat and a backpack full of weapons (although the flight crew never flew again). So I don't see a huge security risk to known jumpseaters.

I think this is standard- Captain needs to authorise it. Same at BA (know this for a fact).