Londonlouis

Hey all,

I'm a Delta Skymiles Platinum who will shortly become a Delta Diamond, giving me 4 Global Upgrade Certificates (GUCs). Delta have recently devalued this benefit by only allowing one cabin upgrades (econ to PE or PE to business) rather than when they previously took you from econ to business on any of Delta's closest partners (AF, VS, KL, etc).

In light of this, I am strategically looking to use my GUCs for maximum value by targeting KLM routes to fly BEFORE PE is implemented on them. Obviously some 787-10s already have PE & most of them will probably have it by the end of the year, so my best bet to get the greatest bang for my buck (buying an economy ticket & upgrading directly to business class) is likely riding a 787-9 somewhere in the first half of 2023.

I have wall-to-wall plans up until the end of 2022 & a US trip (on Emirates) in March, so my preference would be to try to use them from May 2023 onwards. However, if it's unlikely the 787-9s are still going to be PE-free, I could shoehorn in a trip to somewhere cheap(er) ex-Europe - so, Asia, Africa or Latin America - at the end of March.

Does anyone have any ideas how to best use them? or which routes would likely make the most sense? I am open to going pretty much anywhere to get the best use of them.

Bogota & LA (for one of two flights) looked like two good uses that have regular 787-9s but those seemingly will have PE by Jan/Feb '23. Not sure if KLM are due to reopen any routes culled due to covid which might also fit? (Jakarta? Kuala Lumpur?)

Anyway, any help from KLM regulars would be greatly appreciated! ..& if I have to end up in the old 777 cabins to use them then it won't be the end of the world! If that is the case, which old style business cabins should I avoid at all costs (A330s?) & which should I seek to target (newer 777s)?

CyBeR

If I'm not mistaken all 781 have already been retrofitted and the 789 are underway but subject to a bit of a delay. So avoid all 787-10 routes I'd say.

No PE is currently guaranteed on 77W and 772 (not yet retrofitted and won't be by the end of the year) and A330 (won't be retrofitted), so those are your safest bets. All business cabins are perfectly serviceable at this time, even the A330 which has a 2-2-2 layout just like the 777 albeit with a slightly different model seat owing to the smaller fuselage diameter. Note that the retrofit is scheduled to be complete in Q1 2023 (meaning all 787 and 777) so you don't have forever.

Londonlouis

Is there somewhere that confirms this, or is it a broader estimation? Most of what I read indicated that the 777 cabins would be rolled out well into 2023, so I assumed the second half of the year would likely still be possible. It seems as though KLM aren't yet selling 777 PE tickets, at least from the routes I checked, but I have no idea how firm their retrofit timeline has to be to go forward with that. They're selling PE on 787-9s yet to be fitted, of course.

If worst comes to worst my home airport (FRA) often gets AF PE deals ($/€650-850) given it's LH's hub... albeit predominantly to Africa. I've seen zero sale pricing from KLM in PE so far. Might have to position to somewhere else (Warsaw often gets really good AF PE prices to Asia) to get real value out of these certificates...

CyBeR

Tbh I don't know how firm that schedule is either, all I know is KL has confirmed to InsideFlyer (https://insideflyer.nl/klm-legt-ombo...ijdelijk-stil/, Dutch) that while the retrofit has been delayed slightly, the whole operation should still be done by the end of Q1 2023.

I believe PE is currently only sold on specific routes, even if other routes are customarily operated by 781, but that will probably change soon as more planes are retrofitted and PE availability (physically) becomes more of a guarantee.

MartijnH

Aeroroutes published a list of destinations and timelines for the 789 and 781 for the Premium Comfort roll-out. That article is from the end of August. All we know it is a bit delayed, but I haven't seen such a schedule/timeline for the 777 fleet.

CyBeR

I was thinking about this some more and I think a mistake snuck into the article I referenced above, where it says the whole 787 and 777 fleet should be retrofitted by Q1 2023 i.e. end of March next year which is only 5 months from now. That is a ridiculously fast pace to retrofit all 31 777s (with both new WBC and PE) and 13 more 789s.

The original plan was, iirc, Q1 2024. I suspect that someone, somewhere, said or wrote the wrong year. This would make it safe for the time being and probably until at least mid-2023 to book a 777 route, of which there are many.

Londonlouis

Yeah, that was my thought at the time. I've seen multiple KLM statements say it would be far later so assumed the 777s wouldn't be done until Q3 or Q4. That they aren't selling tickets for all of them right now is a fairly good indication there's still some time to go.

It's an interesting (& first world ) dilemma to consider whether to use them on economy tickets for 777s in the €400-600 range & probably only hit Delta Gold or Platinum by the end of the year, or to use them on a limited number of AF or KL (or VS) PE deals with the 150% mileage that would bring to help reach Platinum or Diamond again.

I'm not so much a fan of the lack of privacy on those old cabins (haven't flown KLM's but have done on very similar Aeromexico & Finnair cabins) as I often travel solo. Having said that, most of the AF PE deals out of Europe are to markets that predominantly use older hardware & rarely premium ones (US, Japan, Singapore, etc), though I think most of AF's 777 fleet now has reverse herringbone.

Appreciate the feedback nonetheless.