FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   KLM Flying Dutchman (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman-493/)
-   -   Mess in AMS today - April 2022 onwards (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman/2080797-mess-ams-today-april-2022-onwards.html)

atflyer Jun 4, 22 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by irishguy28 (Post 34307046)
It's precisely because the pax are "spread around" that should actually help. There are options available around Europe that aren't available in Schiphol right now. I imagine there probably aren't any hotel rooms available anywhere around Schiphol either, so bringing connecting pax to Schiphol would be awful right now.

Don't understand why they won't carry those terminating in AMS - probably to avoid the scenario of rioting connecting pax when they are turned away even as others are allowed to board.

Exactly what I thought, Irishguy. Indeed, transfer passengers that have a high (near certain?) risk of being stranded at Schiphol due to a lack of connections are better off at the airport of origin - other rerouting options, at least hotels available. But why not flying people with final destination AMS to AMS? The only reason I can think of is that pax with a connection then won't accept they cannot board. But with clear and careful explanation that should not be too much of an issue.

I am bound for Boston via Paris in a week. Can only pray the chaos is less.

atflyer Jun 4, 22 2:42 pm

Addition - some suggest that wind is a problem and that they hence face runway restrictions. I am in den Haag, 50 km from Schiphol, weather is perfect, a nice, no wind Summer evening. Does not make sense. Seems that the pax issue is the only reason for this meltdown, there is no other word for it.

mfkne Jun 4, 22 2:44 pm


Originally Posted by atflyer (Post 34307193)
The only reason I can think of is that pax with a connection then won't accept they cannot board. But with clear and careful explanation that should not be too much of an issue.

I have witnessed that first hand a few years ago when AMS was down due to snow, all pax with connections in AMS were denied boarding at the outstation, and a handful of passengers, me included, were allowed to board because AMS was our final destination.

johan rebel Jun 4, 22 2:45 pm


Originally Posted by mfkne (Post 34306882)
Reportedly planes are flying back empty tonight, so I wonder if they also leave pax with destination AMS behind.

There have been occasions when KLM only flew pax with destination AMS to Schiphol, leaving behind all the transfer pax. This was because fog had more or less shut down the airport. I remember reading about one pax flying from OSL (if memory serves) with destination DUS. He managed to convince the gate agents to nevertheless let him board, saying that he would take a train from Amsterdam to Düsseldorf. Once on the plane, he found himself the only passenger!

Johan

atflyer Jun 4, 22 2:52 pm

Today's hourly weather report for AMS - we have 19-20 km/hour or force 3 or less on average, 40-50 degrees (so coming from the NE)....how can this be so disruptive?
https://www.weer1.com/europe/netherl...ate=2022-06-04

dkeng Jun 4, 22 2:53 pm

Crikey, seems it just keeps getting worse in AMS.

I've got business in the Netherlands next week and booked on an orange plane Monday and Friday. Not looking forward to the experience, and starting to wonder if I should be looking at Eurostar. 5 hours on a train has to be better than 4 hours in a security queue, right?

b12e Jun 4, 22 2:54 pm


Originally Posted by atflyer (Post 34307217)
Today's hourly weather report for AMS - we have 19-20 km/hour or force 3 or less on average, 40-50 degrees (so coming from the NE)....how can this be so disruptive?
https://www.weer1.com/europe/netherl...ate=2022-06-04

It's the NE breeze. Everytime there's the slightest NE airflow, AMS shuts down.

johan rebel Jun 4, 22 2:58 pm


Originally Posted by atflyer (Post 34307198)
some suggest that wind is a problem and that they hence face runway restrictions.

The Aalsmeerbaan (RWY 18L/36R) has been closed for maintenance since April 4th, and is only expected to be available again sometime in the middle of July.

The wind at AMS has been blowing from the northeast for days now:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...29cf3acb77.jpg

Not much of a wind if you ask me, but since last Thursday there's only been one runway available for arrivals (Kaagbaan, mostly), and one or two for departures. Other major airports somehow manage just fine with two or even only one runway, but not Schiphol.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...f3756afe77.jpg
Now.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...106b8c8f7d.png
Midday today.

Johan

Gulbra Jun 4, 22 3:10 pm

For any other fellow stranded pax. “Compensation” available in the app. Is this new? Not sure whether it was due to the closed lounge or the 2hr flight delay.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...07b28c045.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...b6070a76f.jpeg

johan rebel Jun 4, 22 3:12 pm


Originally Posted by b12e (Post 34307226)
It's the NE breeze. Everytime there's the slightest NE airflow, AMS shuts down.

I don't think any other major hub airport has as many runways as AMS, but that doens't help if most of them are spectacularly misaligned.

Only the Kaagbaan and Oostbaan are aligned with the prevailing winds, and the latter is too short to be of much use (although I remember landing on it in an SAA 747, in the teeth of a full-blown hurricane).

Way back in 1949, Jan Dellaert came up with a very clever and prescient runway design for Schiphol. Six runways arranged like offset spokes around a single terminal, with room for another four runways, which would have made 10 (!!!) in total. There was also room to lengthen three of the six first runways.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...29948c1ecc.jpg
Something there for every wind direction!

Johan

mpkz Jun 4, 22 3:12 pm


Originally Posted by dkeng (Post 34307222)
Crikey, seems it just keeps getting worse in AMS.

I've got business in the Netherlands next week and booked on an orange plane Monday and Friday. Not looking forward to the experience, and starting to wonder if I should be looking at Eurostar. 5 hours on a train has to be better than 4 hours in a security queue, right?

The combination of news about UK airports and Schiphol mean that Eurostar might be a good option. No idea about the queues for that, but know some people traveling early next week, so let's see. 5 hours on a train almost certainly beats the risk of long security lines on both sides, even if 4 hours is still relatively unlikely at Schiphol (especially if you find the shortest line instead of just showing up at the default one for your flight).

johan rebel Jun 4, 22 3:14 pm


Originally Posted by Gulbra (Post 34307257)
For any other fellow stranded pax. “Compensation” available in the app.

But how much? Schiphol F&B outlets aren't exactly cheap.

Johan

atflyer Jun 4, 22 3:15 pm

Ach ja, of course. The Kaagbaan cannot be used for starts from the SW. You cannot use the Polderbaan for landings from the South. You cannot use the Buitenveldertbaan (27/9) for landings from the West. The only way to use 4 runways in with a NE wind would be starting on Polder and Buitenveldert but then landings would be on Kaag and Zwanenburg (18/36C) which would imply that landing traffic crosses each other. Dual use of Zwanenburg (the only runway capable of handling starts and landings) is not of help since the only other landing runway would be Kaag. Schiphol's constellation is disastrous if you have any NE wind with any of the North-South runways out.

Schiphol, build taxiways that allow using Polder for landing from the South, and using Kaag for starting from the SW (although even then starting on Kaag can interfere with starting from Buitenveldert).

Dellearts at his time brilliant plan for tangential runways unfortunately works out as a disaster.

Gulbra Jun 4, 22 3:17 pm


Originally Posted by johan rebel (Post 34307271)
But how much? Schiphol F&B outlets aren't exactly cheap.

Johan

Nevermind, this is just an insult..
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...8f59ad623.jpeg

b12e Jun 4, 22 3:18 pm


Originally Posted by Gulbra (Post 34307277)
Nevermind, this is just an insult..
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...8f59ad623.jpeg

that'll get you a bottle of water and, if you're willing to pay a little yourself, a bag of crisps.

maybe a cheeseburger at mcDonald's, but with the prices they have at AMS perhaps a single chicken nugget.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:36 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.