KLM & EU261 Claims
Jul 21, 2022, 6:31 am
#77
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: MEL
Programs: QF Gold, FB Plat, Accor Diamond, Hilton Gold, Marriot Gold – ex-UA 1k, ex-AA Plat, ex IHG Plat
Posts: 148
Jul 21, 2022, 6:42 am
#78
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 757
Just checked my booking and suddenly there is a third flight - new flight home Monday morning instead of Sunday evening - in my booking? But the regular flight home on Sunday evening is still showing as "on plan". Is this what is looks like when they are rebooking you? I assume they are in the process of cancelling my Sunday flight and rebooking me to the monday flight?
Also get an error messages when clicking on "change flights", while it still worked yesterday.
Continuation - Given that the new flight would depart at 6:50 already, I would need to stay the extra night - which KLM generally has to pay for - at an airport hotel. With the current queues we would need to be in the airport by 4 am at the latest I assume. But the Sheraton directly opposite of the entrance costs 300€. The CitizenM which is 10min away on foot costs 200€. Do you believe KLM will make a fuss about this cost? What would realistically be the limit? I'm not trying to squeeze some luxury extra night out of it (the night which ends already at 3-4am) but to have something closeby so I don't need to get up even earlier, take a taxi ride to the airport first etc.
Also get an error messages when clicking on "change flights", while it still worked yesterday.
Continuation - Given that the new flight would depart at 6:50 already, I would need to stay the extra night - which KLM generally has to pay for - at an airport hotel. With the current queues we would need to be in the airport by 4 am at the latest I assume. But the Sheraton directly opposite of the entrance costs 300€. The CitizenM which is 10min away on foot costs 200€. Do you believe KLM will make a fuss about this cost? What would realistically be the limit? I'm not trying to squeeze some luxury extra night out of it (the night which ends already at 3-4am) but to have something closeby so I don't need to get up even earlier, take a taxi ride to the airport first etc.
I booked the Hilton at AMS on 23 April, the day when .... hit the fan, and only Hilton was available. There was no question from KL when I requested a reimbursement but I am Platinum so maybe that has helped. There wasn’t another hotel available in reasonable proximity and that was the initiate reason. Also, KL announced that all agents were extremely overloaded and asked all pax to book themselves. So I did.
Jul 21, 2022, 7:05 am
#79
formerly JackDann
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,657
Jul 21, 2022, 7:22 am
#80
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,047
Just checked my booking and suddenly there is a third flight - new flight home Monday morning instead of Sunday evening - in my booking? But the regular flight home on Sunday evening is still showing as "on plan". Is this what is looks like when they are rebooking you? I assume they are in the process of cancelling my Sunday flight and rebooking me to the monday flight?
Also get an error messages when clicking on "change flights", while it still worked yesterday.
Continuation - Given that the new flight would depart at 6:50 already, I would need to stay the extra night - which KLM generally has to pay for - at an airport hotel. With the current queues we would need to be in the airport by 4 am at the latest I assume. But the Sheraton directly opposite of the entrance costs 300€. The CitizenM which is 10min away on foot costs 200€. Do you believe KLM will make a fuss about this cost? What would realistically be the limit? I'm not trying to squeeze some luxury extra night out of it (the night which ends already at 3-4am) but to have something closeby so I don't need to get up even earlier, take a taxi ride to the airport first etc.
Also get an error messages when clicking on "change flights", while it still worked yesterday.
Continuation - Given that the new flight would depart at 6:50 already, I would need to stay the extra night - which KLM generally has to pay for - at an airport hotel. With the current queues we would need to be in the airport by 4 am at the latest I assume. But the Sheraton directly opposite of the entrance costs 300€. The CitizenM which is 10min away on foot costs 200€. Do you believe KLM will make a fuss about this cost? What would realistically be the limit? I'm not trying to squeeze some luxury extra night out of it (the night which ends already at 3-4am) but to have something closeby so I don't need to get up even earlier, take a taxi ride to the airport first etc.
I don't think Citizen M would be an issue, not that I would recommend it. I expect if left to them you'd be put in Hoofddorp or Badhoevedorp. Personally I don't think 10 minute taxi ride is worse than 10 minute walk, though I acknowledge the fuss factor.
Jul 31, 2022, 9:13 am
#81
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: UA, bmi, AA, CO, DL, B6, AMEX, Hertz, Most Hotels
Posts: 3,002
Hopefully someone can suggest what my next step should be after KLM
1. Approved my EU261 claim for a "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". (July 1st)
2. Emailed KLM with my banking info as requested. (July 4th)
2. In reply to my follow-up request for a status on missing funds (sent July 18th) , KLM emailed a reply (on on July 19th) now rejecting my previously approved claim stating "I am sorry for miscommunication, As per our records, I note that the flight mentioned above was delayed due to the Air Traffic Control."
To make matters even more confusing.
1. AFTER I received KLM's initial approval. My friend submitted his claim for the same delay. We were traveling on the same PNR booked by me.
2. On July 13th , KLM approved his claim approved based on same "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". and
3. He already received the US equivalent of EURO 250 both approved
The last action by me was to ignore the rejection and again on July 19th, reply to KLM's initial approval email resubmitting the requested banking info. No reply has been received.
I'm at a loss as to what to do next?
fwiw, Original travel was on May 25th (EDI-AMS/AMS-CDG) Per multiple pilot announcement, EDI-AMS was delayed because the luggage in the hold could not be secured. That 1+ hrs delay the cascaded into further ATC issues. Missed connection in AMS. Rebooked flight arrived in CDG @10:01PM. Original flight was scheduled to arrive at CDG at 7:05pm I submitted my claim to KLM on May 25th
1. Approved my EU261 claim for a "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". (July 1st)
2. Emailed KLM with my banking info as requested. (July 4th)
2. In reply to my follow-up request for a status on missing funds (sent July 18th) , KLM emailed a reply (on on July 19th) now rejecting my previously approved claim stating "I am sorry for miscommunication, As per our records, I note that the flight mentioned above was delayed due to the Air Traffic Control."
To make matters even more confusing.
1. AFTER I received KLM's initial approval. My friend submitted his claim for the same delay. We were traveling on the same PNR booked by me.
2. On July 13th , KLM approved his claim approved based on same "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". and
3. He already received the US equivalent of EURO 250 both approved
The last action by me was to ignore the rejection and again on July 19th, reply to KLM's initial approval email resubmitting the requested banking info. No reply has been received.
I'm at a loss as to what to do next?
fwiw, Original travel was on May 25th (EDI-AMS/AMS-CDG) Per multiple pilot announcement, EDI-AMS was delayed because the luggage in the hold could not be secured. That 1+ hrs delay the cascaded into further ATC issues. Missed connection in AMS. Rebooked flight arrived in CDG @10:01PM. Original flight was scheduled to arrive at CDG at 7:05pm I submitted my claim to KLM on May 25th
Aug 4, 2022, 2:44 am
#83
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,685
Anyone know any good companies that handle the court process for you in the Netherlands or France?
I had a cancellation (LYS-AMS) made just under 7 days before, for which I was rebooked on SNCF to CDG and then CDG-AMS. KLM just tried to deny compensation on the grounds that "you arrived under 3 hours delayed" which is irrelevant because my departure was 2.5 hours earlier than the previously scheduled departure. I simply emailed this to them in response, but if they ignore / keep pushing back, I'm happy to give up 25% to push this claim to court.
I had a cancellation (LYS-AMS) made just under 7 days before, for which I was rebooked on SNCF to CDG and then CDG-AMS. KLM just tried to deny compensation on the grounds that "you arrived under 3 hours delayed" which is irrelevant because my departure was 2.5 hours earlier than the previously scheduled departure. I simply emailed this to them in response, but if they ignore / keep pushing back, I'm happy to give up 25% to push this claim to court.
Aug 4, 2022, 2:48 am
#84
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: MEL
Programs: QF Gold, FB Plat, Accor Diamond, Hilton Gold, Marriot Gold – ex-UA 1k, ex-AA Plat, ex IHG Plat
Posts: 148
Anyone know any good companies that handle the court process for you in the Netherlands or France?
I had a cancellation (LYS-AMS) made just under 7 days before, for which I was rebooked on SNCF to CDG and then CDG-AMS. KLM just tried to deny compensation on the grounds that "you arrived under 3 hours delayed" which is irrelevant because my departure was 2.5 hours earlier than the previously scheduled departure. I simply emailed this to them in response, but if they ignore / keep pushing back, I'm happy to give up 25% to push this claim to court.
I had a cancellation (LYS-AMS) made just under 7 days before, for which I was rebooked on SNCF to CDG and then CDG-AMS. KLM just tried to deny compensation on the grounds that "you arrived under 3 hours delayed" which is irrelevant because my departure was 2.5 hours earlier than the previously scheduled departure. I simply emailed this to them in response, but if they ignore / keep pushing back, I'm happy to give up 25% to push this claim to court.
Aug 4, 2022, 3:18 am
#85
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
Article 5 (1)(c)(ii) is of relevance here:
(bolding mine)
In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
[...]
have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
[...]
they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; [...]
[...]
have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
[...]
they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; [...]
Aug 4, 2022, 3:42 am
#86
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,685
Aug 5, 2022, 1:37 am
#87
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: RTM
Programs: DiamondClub (rip), Currently an Alliance Treble Champion (BA, A3, AZ)
Posts: 1,786
Hopefully someone can suggest what my next step should be after KLM
1. Approved my EU261 claim for a "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". (July 1st)
2. Emailed KLM with my banking info as requested. (July 4th)
2. In reply to my follow-up request for a status on missing funds (sent July 18th) , KLM emailed a reply (on on July 19th) now rejecting my previously approved claim stating "I am sorry for miscommunication, As per our records, I note that the flight mentioned above was delayed due to the Air Traffic Control."
To make matters even more confusing.
1. AFTER I received KLM's initial approval. My friend submitted his claim for the same delay. We were traveling on the same PNR booked by me.
2. On July 13th , KLM approved his claim approved based on same "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". and
3. He already received the US equivalent of EURO 250 both approved
The last action by me was to ignore the rejection and again on July 19th, reply to KLM's initial approval email resubmitting the requested banking info. No reply has been received.
I'm at a loss as to what to do next?
fwiw, Original travel was on May 25th (EDI-AMS/AMS-CDG) Per multiple pilot announcement, EDI-AMS was delayed because the luggage in the hold could not be secured. That 1+ hrs delay the cascaded into further ATC issues. Missed connection in AMS. Rebooked flight arrived in CDG @10:01PM. Original flight was scheduled to arrive at CDG at 7:05pm I submitted my claim to KLM on May 25th
1. Approved my EU261 claim for a "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". (July 1st)
2. Emailed KLM with my banking info as requested. (July 4th)
2. In reply to my follow-up request for a status on missing funds (sent July 18th) , KLM emailed a reply (on on July 19th) now rejecting my previously approved claim stating "I am sorry for miscommunication, As per our records, I note that the flight mentioned above was delayed due to the Air Traffic Control."
To make matters even more confusing.
1. AFTER I received KLM's initial approval. My friend submitted his claim for the same delay. We were traveling on the same PNR booked by me.
2. On July 13th , KLM approved his claim approved based on same "flight was delayed due to Ground operations". and
3. He already received the US equivalent of EURO 250 both approved
The last action by me was to ignore the rejection and again on July 19th, reply to KLM's initial approval email resubmitting the requested banking info. No reply has been received.
I'm at a loss as to what to do next?
fwiw, Original travel was on May 25th (EDI-AMS/AMS-CDG) Per multiple pilot announcement, EDI-AMS was delayed because the luggage in the hold could not be secured. That 1+ hrs delay the cascaded into further ATC issues. Missed connection in AMS. Rebooked flight arrived in CDG @10:01PM. Original flight was scheduled to arrive at CDG at 7:05pm I submitted my claim to KLM on May 25th
I'm interested to know what email address you used to contact them? I'm waiting over 60 days for a claim with no response.
Aug 5, 2022, 1:39 am
#88
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: RTM
Programs: DiamondClub (rip), Currently an Alliance Treble Champion (BA, A3, AZ)
Posts: 1,786
Aug 5, 2022, 3:41 am
#89
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,047
The NL gov department is useless, they don't investigate or enforce individual complaints. You can file a complaint after 60 days and they give you a reference number and sent it to the airline. That's it. You have to go to court - luckily Dutch liability insurance usually covers legal action. I've had a claim "in processing" for over 70 days now!
Particularly in this case, where two different pax on the same itinerary have received two different answers to the same question - the issue for the oversight is not whether a given flight is subject to compensation or not (that would be a question for the court system), but that the airline is clearly failing in its duty to inform the passengers.
Aug 5, 2022, 3:30 pm
#90
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: RTM
Programs: DiamondClub (rip), Currently an Alliance Treble Champion (BA, A3, AZ)
Posts: 1,786
The oversight bodies are not meant to enforce individual complaints, they are meant to monitor airline compliance. If they decide the airline is not compliant, they can issue large fines. Most airlines I've dealt with became a lot more cooperative once oversight authorities came into picture.
Particularly in this case, where two different pax on the same itinerary have received two different answers to the same question - the issue for the oversight is not whether a given flight is subject to compensation or not (that would be a question for the court system), but that the airline is clearly failing in its duty to inform the passengers.
Particularly in this case, where two different pax on the same itinerary have received two different answers to the same question - the issue for the oversight is not whether a given flight is subject to compensation or not (that would be a question for the court system), but that the airline is clearly failing in its duty to inform the passengers.
given the Dutch authority was condemned by the EC for giving non compliant guidance to KL for the unrefundable vouchers at the start of Covid, I have zero confidence in their ability, or willingness to enforce the law.