the810

Can you give us an example? I've been looking at data over and over and never found a single case of mask mandate leading to decrease of cases anywhere in Europe. Most countries introduced them without any major change in the infection growth and eventually had to resort to much tougher restrictions. Netherlands is a good example.


But it's not. Not for everyone. If mask only makes you uncomfortable, good for you. But not everyone's body is like yours. There are people who suffer and have significant issues wearing that thing. This is where lot of conflicts arise - if society keeps telling people that their problem doesn't matter or even exist, it can only lead to that person's radicalisation.

Mask mandates also hurt economy as they lead to decrease of revenue in non-essential stores and services, including transportation (some examples I known of are Austria and Czechia).

"Masks are free" is one of the biggest misconceptions and mistake made by governments. Masks are the second most invasive meassure after restrictions on movement, as they directly interfere with breathing. There is a good reason why mask "recommendations" were almost universally ignored even in countries where population usually responds to the government advice (e.g. Denmark).

They are unfortunatelly completely in line with the world as I saw it, especially the last summer. I've read dozens if not hundreds of various blogs and social media posts where someone engaged in a high risk activity (e.g. flying in a packed plane) and commented something along the lines of "but everyone wore masks so we felt safe". You are not meant to feel safe because of the mask.

I also seen various politicians and other influencers who continue to push for masks and shame anyone who doesn't wear them, attend large events, crowding and not keeping distance. You could find thousands and thousands of such pics from this year - but everyone has a mask so it's ok.

mpkz

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../02/2015954117
https://voxeu.org/article/face-mask-...ovid-19-canada

Among many.. there are a bunch of publications / working papers on this in various settings, using synthetic controls or "natural" experiments and the results almost universally support the idea that mask mandates reduce spread relative to a well-defined control group.


Anyone with serious issues can get a medical exemption from a GP that is valid in most European countries.

I'm pretty sure the virus decreases economic activity a lot more than the costs of discomfort.




The vast majority of people advocating for masks also recommend bans or limitations on mass gatherings

flyingcrazy

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1776679.html

No flights from diseased Britain allowed until at least January 1st! This will solve all of the Netherlands problems with covid now. Phew for them.

westi2002

You can still travel virus-free by boat or train

fransknorge

Nope, Eurostar and Ferry are stopped too.

Solevita

Have you got a source for ferries being banned? (this being ferrytalk n all

fransknorge

OK Ferry are not (yet) banned between Netherlands and UK. They are between Ireland and UK.
For Netherlands, the PM said ""in close collaboration with other EU member states, look into the possibilities of further restricting imports of the virus from the United Kingdom”. so the ferry route hangs by a thread.

flyingcrazy

Looks like all UK-EU travel will be banned until early January.

US and Switzerland so far saying they will not ban UK flights as data is not sufficient to justify it. Good for them.

mpkz

Swiss have banned flights. Good for them, because with this virus acting fast is important, even if you occasionally overshoot.

flyingcrazy

Its already in Netherlands, Italy, Denmark and even Australia now. These bans are pointless.

Xandrios

Why is that pointless? Just because a few cases have made it across, does not mean that they are also spreading. With all measures and lockdowns it is expected that, people that have traveled, will quarantine upon arrival - especially if they show symptoms. There is no guarantee that it will spread.

Of course the more cases, the higher the chances. So that's why travel is being restricted. Sounds fairly logical to me.

HeyUpDuck

Yes. I also wouldn't be surprised if it originated from Europe. Why is it that London and the South East have the highest rates of this new strain? Perhaps being the gateway to Europe has something to do with it? The entire thing is a farce.

NickB

Over 99% of known cases are in the UK. The number of identified cases outside the UK is a small handful. It may well be that there might be more but, for now, the evidence that we have is that it is spreading fast in the UK and we have for now no evidence of it spreading fast elsewhere. In these circumstances, it strikes me as eminently sensible to take immediate, provisional precautionary measures until we know more.

the810

It would be very surprising if the strain that supposedly spreads faster by 70% didn't spread elsewhere where it was imported. The first identified case is about three months old already. It even made its way to place as isolated as Australia. I can't imagine a scenario in which it somehow stopped spreading upon arriving to other European countries.

The reason why only a few cases were identified is most likely that we simply weren't looking for them until now.

​​​​​Unfortunatelly, this "shut everything down just in case" culture is apparantely becoming popular. It's exactly what I feared since the pandemic began - in the future, every new dissease will cause knee jerk reactions like this, disrupting travel forever.

flyingcrazy

Considering the USA is saying these hysterical reactions are overblown and not necessary, I am wondering if this political, this hysteria from European countries to shut it all off and race around being silly.