South East Asia routes BKK layover

Old Aug 25, 20, 2:07 am
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South East Asia routes BKK layover

Hi fellow travelers,

I noticed that many KL routes that were re-open to SE Asia now stop by BKK. I noticed that on routes from AMS to HK, Taipei, Jakarta (though to be fair the last one used to stop in KUL).

Surely this is not a technical thing, as 777ERs are quite capable to fly AMS HKG or AMS TPE non-stop.
Does anyone know why KLM has decided to have all these stops in BKK?

Your insider explanation/crazy theories are welcome,
Cheers,
maalloc
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Old Aug 25, 20, 2:57 am
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Originally Posted by maalloc View Post
Hi fellow travelers,

I noticed that many KL routes that were re-open to SE Asia now stop by BKK. I noticed that on routes from AMS to HK, Taipei, Jakarta (though to be fair the last one used to stop in KUL).

Surely this is not a technical thing, as 777ERs are quite capable to fly AMS HKG or AMS TPE non-stop.
Does anyone know why KLM has decided to have all these stops in BKK?

Your insider explanation/crazy theories are welcome,
Cheers,
maalloc
To catch both , the demand is lower to HKG , TPE , MNL , CGK but still exists , so its a way to artificially increase capacity to/from BKK (if bookable) without taking much risks while keep flying to other locations in south east asia and have them in your portfolio

Its not only BKK , other KLM long haul flights are operated this way , through SIN , KGL , KWI or AUH , then to airports around

Last edited by fifty_two; Aug 25, 20 at 3:05 am
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Old Aug 25, 20, 3:09 am
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Could be that... I had ruled out this explanation as I don't see BKK having more demand than HK, CGK and TPE combined... But I could be totally wrong on this one, I haven't flown in this region in what feels like ages now.
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Old Aug 25, 20, 4:53 am
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Originally Posted by maalloc View Post
Could be that... I had ruled out this explanation as I don't see BKK having more demand than HK, CGK and TPE combined... But I could be totally wrong on this one, I haven't flown in this region in what feels like ages now.
best would be to have feedback from someone working at the operations planning to have data , but in the end management is the one to decide based on what reports and KPI they receive
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Old Aug 25, 20, 6:50 am
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The main reason is Crew entry requirement in TPE and HKG; Both would require Quarantine which is not possible for crews to be blocked 2 weeks. That is why they do a stop in BKK to change crew ( on top of disboarding some passengers, I doubt they have local traffic right on BKK-TPE or BKK-HKG sectors); The crew will do BKK-TPE- BKK or BKK-HKG-BKK without entering either HKG or TPE. They will then rest in BKK and then fly for another local Asia rotation (HKH or TPE) or fly back to AMS.

So for one Crew typical routing would be :
Day 1 : AMS- BKK
Day 2 ; arrive BKK
Day 3 : rest in BKK
Day 4 :depart for TPE and return BKK
Day 5 : Rest BKK
Day 6 BKK- AMS
Day 7 : end of routing;

Same thing was happening earlier in the Pandemic with flight to China with a crew change is Seoul;
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Old Aug 25, 20, 8:10 am
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Thanks pascalgr, this totally makes sense!
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Old Aug 25, 20, 12:08 pm
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I checked it with some kl crew members ; and its correct there are restrictions for crew; eg they have to do a test and so on.
Flights on return can have pax from both destinations. Cargo is most important however flights are also pretty full/good load.
CREW Rotations are all shortened . 24h in BKK they have to stay IN THE ROOM../airporthotel. then shuttle and next day back to Ams. No fresh air basically after a 5 day trip...

On a different note KLM operates PVG and HGH via ICN same construction
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Old Oct 5, 20, 10:19 am
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Looks like some planned variation to this over the winter - I'm booked on KL837 which alternates between Singapore-Jakarta and Singapore-Denpasar (which of course was the usual daily destination). On the date I checked (5th Jan) Kuala Lumpur is instead a tag from Bangkok, Manila a tag on from Taipei and Shanghai a tag on from Seoul. All 77W. I imagine cargo is doing well on these routes
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Old Nov 2, 20, 5:45 am
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Hello there,

I was wondering if anyone knows any transit arrangements for KLM in Bangkok. I'm planning to book a flight between Amsterdam and Jakarta this December which as it strands, includes a fuel stop in Bangkok. I was wondering if KLM has any arrangements for transit passengers for non-Thai passengers in Bangkok (whether pax are to remain on the plane or otherwise). I understand that this is marketed as a "direct flight" as KL815, however I am rather concerned with IATA's advisory on TIMATIC saying that Thailand is not permitting anyone to enter or transit Thailand.

I appreciate any insight!

Many thanks,

clubeurope
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Old Nov 2, 20, 11:20 am
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Originally Posted by clubeurope View Post
Hello there,

I was wondering if anyone knows any transit arrangements for KLM in Bangkok. I'm planning to book a flight between Amsterdam and Jakarta this December which as it strands, includes a fuel stop in Bangkok. I was wondering if KLM has any arrangements for transit passengers for non-Thai passengers in Bangkok (whether pax are to remain on the plane or otherwise). I understand that this is marketed as a "direct flight" as KL815, however I am rather concerned with IATA's advisory on TIMATIC saying that Thailand is not permitting anyone to enter or transit Thailand.

I appreciate any insight!

Many thanks,

clubeurope
All of KLM's flights to Hong Kong, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manila and Taipei all currently operate via Bangkok, and will until at least early January, according to current schedules.

I don't know what the "transit arrangements" are, but you are clearly over-thinking this. KLM would not be offering flights from Amsterdam to each of Hong Kong, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manil and Taipei that can only be booked and travelled by Thai customers. KLM is not (despite routing all these flights for a limited time through BKK) focusing exclusively on the Thai traveller.
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Old Nov 2, 20, 11:22 am
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Originally Posted by clubeurope View Post
Hello there,

I was wondering if anyone knows any transit arrangements for KLM in Bangkok. I'm planning to book a flight between Amsterdam and Jakarta this December which as it strands, includes a fuel stop in Bangkok. I was wondering if KLM has any arrangements for transit passengers for non-Thai passengers in Bangkok (whether pax are to remain on the plane or otherwise). I understand that this is marketed as a "direct flight" as KL815, however I am rather concerned with IATA's advisory on TIMATIC saying that Thailand is not permitting anyone to enter or transit Thailand.

I appreciate any insight!

Many thanks,

clubeurope
All of KLM's flights to Hong Kong, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manila and Taipei currently operate via Bangkok, and will do so until early January, according to current schedules.

I don't know what the "transit arrangements" are, but you are clearly over-thinking this. KLM would not be offering flights from Amsterdam to each of Hong Kong, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manila and Taipei that can only be booked and travelled by Thai customers. KLM is not (despite routing all these flights for a limited time through BKK) focusing exclusively on the Thai traveller.

My guess is that you don't leave the plane, or that if you must, you don't leave a specific holding area and never actually enter Thailand.
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Old Nov 2, 20, 1:59 pm
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to know if people disembark or not in BKK, you should check how long is the transit time in BKK. If more than 60-90 min, I am pretty sure that pax disembark and stay in the waiting area at the gate in the international zone (possibly clearing security in between, as it was usually done in BKK before Covid - don't know if it has changed or not). If people disembark, aircraft get cleaned, catered and refueled + crew change.
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Old Nov 2, 20, 2:34 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
All of KLM's flights to Hong Kong, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manila and Taipei currently operate via Bangkok, and will do so until early January, according to current schedules.

I don't know what the "transit arrangements" are, but you are clearly over-thinking this. KLM would not be offering flights from Amsterdam to each of Hong Kong, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manila and Taipei that can only be booked and travelled by Thai customers. KLM is not (despite routing all these flights for a limited time through BKK) focusing exclusively on the Thai traveller.

My guess is that you don't leave the plane, or that if you must, you don't leave a specific holding area and never actually enter Thailand.
Thanks for the insight Irishguy! I suppose your points are very much logical.

Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
to know if people disembark or not in BKK, you should check how long is the transit time in BKK. If more than 60-90 min, I am pretty sure that pax disembark and stay in the waiting area at the gate in the international zone (possibly clearing security in between, as it was usually done in BKK before Covid - don't know if it has changed or not). If people disembark, aircraft get cleaned, catered and refueled + crew change.
Hi Goldorak! The stop scheduled for the flight is meant to last for 1h15m, so that does seem rather long to stay on the plane.
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Old Nov 2, 20, 3:49 pm
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ALL passengers remain on board during all stops via BKK . in and outbound. No exception to leave aircraft for lounge or 24h layover or whatever.
The length of the stop is NO indication at all.. Most returning flights ex BKK leave early as crew will try to leave earlier
Catering fueling cleaning takes some time.
Returning to AMS some flights are sold to Thai passengers ( usually flight kl 876)
Safe travels to CGK mr Club europe
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Old Nov 2, 20, 5:12 pm
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Originally Posted by splflyer View Post
ALL passengers remain on board during all stops via BKK . in and outbound. No exception to leave aircraft for lounge or 24h layover or whatever.
The length of the stop is NO indication at all.. Most returning flights ex BKK leave early as crew will try to leave earlier
Catering fueling cleaning takes some time.
Returning to AMS some flights are sold to Thai passengers ( usually flight kl 876)
Safe travels to CGK mr Club europe
Many thanks for your invaluable information splflyer, I really do appreciate it.
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